CC Activation Properties

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

No need for arguments. Just ideas about CC activation properties.

After various people testing (with varied results), if you correctly time a d.MK after CC Activation with Ken/Rol/etc., it will be unblockable if you weren’t blocking BEFORE the “Ching”. Your opponent is “frozen” after activation, allowing you to connect an attack.

Now I will paste various posts from Kcxj’s Boston CvS2 Match Video thread…

Aside from the varied results, I guess it is safe to say that CC activation DOES “freeze” your opponent. How long does it take for Rolento d.MK to hit? 4 frames? Is there a 5 frame move that can be used to test with?

what exactly is going on?

related posts concerning CCs and linking…

After trying to wrap my head around all this… I have some thoughts/questions. tragic posted “Shoto c.LP is +7 frames of advantage on hit. Shoto c.MK comes out in 4 frames. Easy link… you have 3 frames of leeway.” Now if CC startup has 5 frames, this should be impossible to put a CC in between the LP and the MK if CC DIDN’T freeze time right? I mean, you would just run out of frames and they would recover.

Another question. If Rolento’s LP only gives +5, and CC startup is 5… wouldn’t that make it impossible to insert the CC in between the link?

Please, pick apart these posts as much as you can. :slight_smile:

2

First of all… I think we need a link to a guide that describes frame animation for every move, or at least the pertinent ones (jabs, cr. mk’s). I believe Buktooth made a guide that points out everyone’s moves and frames… unfortunately, five minutes on Google have produced nothing.

There is another wrench I’d like to throw in, that may be used to discover more about this intriguing topic. It’s when I noticed the frame advantage that Ken’s jab had after a successful hit, which is +7 which is mentioned in the prior post.

This must mean that in order to connect another successful jab for Ken, his jab’s hitbox had to connect within the +7 frame advantage correct? So I am surmising that Ken’s jab has a startup time of no more than 3 frames and ends in no more than 3 frames as well. The reason?

Because if it had a startup of 4 and a wind down of 4, then after the first connection of a jab would give +7,… then 4 frames would be used up to wind down the initial jab and then 4 frames would again be used for it to come out and connect,… but then the +7 frame window would have closed already. But we all know that 2 cr. lp’s will combo…

So then I surmise that Ken’s jab animation has at most 7 frames of animation itself if I am reading this right.

Which leads me into an interesting observation I had. I clearly noticed in one of my games in the arcade that Ken started a cr. lp nearly at the same time that I activated my CC with Rolento. In fact, the CC flash hit right when Ken’s hand moved out to start the jab. I then immediately mashed on cr. mk and connected before Ken could block again.

Now if Ken’s jab is no more than 7 frames, then I activated my CC, crouched and struck out a connecting cr. mk before the 7 frames were completed. KXCJ noted that Rolento needed 4 frames for his cr. mk to connect fully. If that’s true, then the 5 frames of freezing time exists… because if they didn’t freeze time and just ate animation frames, then the 5 CC startup frames + 1 no valid input frame + 4 cr. mk frames would equal 10 frames which is clearly past the 7 frames needed for Ken to start and finish a cr. lp.

In the end, I thought I saw something that verifies that the 5 CC startup frames actually “freeze time,” as was hinted beforehand which I verified with the simple calculations I did up above. Then again, I could have completely flubbed everything up and misinterpreted stuff. I hope that’s not the case, because this sounds like better news for A-Groovers like me.

3

what the heck… Are you serious?

http://www.gamefaqs.com

type in “Capcom vs Snk 2”. Click the guide that says it was written by Buktooth.

edit: I just read the rest of your post. Can somebody here explain how frame numbers work to ODG/anybody else who’s posts just made absolutely no sense to me? :lol:

The numbers aren’t “random” btw. It’s the people posting them that are clueless that’s all. Help a bro out and the “wtf are you talking about?” level of this forum might actually go down for once.

4

Im lost now. I dont even know what’s going on in this discussion any more.

EDIT: +7 is the frame advantage after the move has completed.

5

OneDumbGook, get a clue–quick.

6

Well, I expected as much. My post was convuluted and written without many references other than the prior post. I found Buktooth’s guide. but it doesn’t tell me how many frames long any of the moves are, nor the startup time for the hit to connect nor the frames in which a move can connect nor how many frames a hit takes to recover. If I remember correctly, kxcj noted that Rolento’s cr. mk needs 4 frames for the hitbox to connect at optimal range. I was wondering where he got that info.

So for all the people that do know what they’re talking about and have vast information reserves,… I have three questions:

  1. Where do I find out stats about each move and a basic tutorial of frames, frame advantages and etc.?

  2. Do your CC moves actually speed up, or is there just no recovery time… in other words, “how exactly can you shoot out 4 CC cr. fp’s in the time it takes for a regular cr. fp to start, hit, then recover?”

  3. How was Ken’s cr. lp unable to recover against my CC activation and the subsequent cr. mk to initiate the CC combo? You would think that the time it takes for Ken to throw out a cr.lp and for it to retract would be less than it would take for me to activate a CC and then crouch and then throw out a cr. mk, right?

7

You can’t. Just listen to anybody online who has a copy of the Japanese CvS2 guidebook.

Wow…

I honestly do not know how to reply to that.

Go to gamefaqs again. CvS2. This time download the guide written by JChen. Please read the entire section on A-groove and Custom Combos before you post another word in this forum. The author obviously put a lot of time and effort into it, and people like him deserve better than this. :lol:

edit: marvelscrub/anybody else who’s trying to seriously learn something in this thread, I knew this discussion sounded familiar…

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35012&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

8

I want to know Rock’s custom combo corner trap and how to counter it :lol:

9

Anyway, I was thinking (which I rarely do).

So far I have seen this:

Sakura st LP -> activate -> far HK

But Rolento st LP -> activate -> cr MK doesn’t work
And Ryu cr MP -> activate -> cr MK doesn’t work

The only conclusion I can draw is that CC activation cancels from the “chaining jabs/shorts” thing to reduce the time needed!

Please tell me if I’m crazy. Thanks.

10

Looks like they got just as far with is as we have :bluu: Although I havent read the whole post i read the page you posted…

11

OneDumbGook: No offense, but you’ve got to wrap your head around basic CC stuff before you can even try to wrap your head around this frame data BS.

1)AFAIK, buy the jap CvS2 book.

2)you can’t shoot out 4 d.HPs in the time it takes 1 d.HP to fully animate I don’t think… CC mode just allows to you cancel into the next moves as soon as it hits. No need to recover.

  1. Please read over your questions… Ken’s, “my”, ? “unable to recover against my CC activation”? Is Ken your opponent? what? :slight_smile: Super confusing, and I really don’t know what you’re asking.

Ken gains +7 frame advatage AFTER d.jab. Nothing to do with how long it takes to animate. This is how long your opponent is in hitstun AFTER you have fully recovered from your d.jab. You have 7 frames where you can do something and hit the opponent before THEY recover from hitstun.

Burghy: Those are 1-frame links right? Tragic believes that you lose 1 frame by inserting CC into a link… so that would make them not work (AFAIK).

The way I see it… 5 frames of startup, but you gain 4 afterward. Which would explain the 1 frame loss?

But I’m just assuming (and probably making an “ass” out of “u” and “me”). I don’t really know.

kcxj: had to ask… um, is that you in your avatar? :slight_smile:

12

Thanks for the info. I actually read that one before, and I’ve written FAQs for other fighting games and no you don’t put much work into it. If he did, he’s an idiot. FAQ’s are something you do 10 minutes here, ten minutes there when you’re bored or f’ing around in a PC room when you’re tired of CS or WC3. And no, don’t ask where my FAQ’s are. It’s online, so go ahead and use Google since your comments insinuated my searching skills are vastly inferior to yours.

Oh btw, I post when I want to, nerd. I like this game and I’m curious about a few things and sorry to disrespect your great knowledge and veteran status by posing noobish questions about a video game. Seriously,… I apologize, nerd.

Anyway, I’ll pose the situation again, this time on clearer terms. I was Rolento and I was fighting my opponent who was using Ken. At one point, I’m within cr. mk range and Ken is crouching. Ken does a cr. lp, I activate nearly simultaneously and throw out a cr. mk to start off my custom combo. So again I’ll ask, cuz nobody but the last guy is trying to understand what I’m asking, “Why couldn’t Ken’s cr. lp recover in time to block Rolento’s CC?”

Both of us were somewhat surprised when this happened and when I think of it, a normal cr. lp and a normal cr. mk executed at the exact same time would end up having the cr. mk win. But in this CC situation, I activated, crouched and then hit mk. Wouldn’t that allow my opponent to recover from a cr. lp and block?

13

Wait a minute wait a minute. Why buy a frame book if what seems like the only unanswered questions in the game can’t be solved by it?What exactly does the frame book contain, if not frame data? I’m so confused, I’m just gonna go mash st fp with Cammy

14

Oh, btw ODG, you’re a nerd. Have you read your 1st post in this thread? It screams “SF nerd”. You’re a nerd. That’s why you’re here isn’t it? Deal with it. What does calling him a nerd accomplish? nothing. No need for this BS.

Anyway, I’ll pose the situation again, this time on clearer terms. I was Rolento and I was fighting my opponent who was using Ken. At one point, I’m within cr. mk range and Ken is crouching. Ken does a cr. lp, I activate nearly simultaneously and throw out a cr. mk to start off my custom combo. So again I’ll ask, cuz nobody but the last guy is trying to understand what I’m asking, “Why couldn’t Ken’s cr. lp recover in time to block Rolento’s CC?”

If you activate while your opponent is doing something… it’s pretty quick. This “freeze” we’re trying to talk about helps too. If I can activate and HIT you before you can even BLOCK if you were in neutral, it only make sense that the same d.MK could hit your normal the same way. Considering it has invincibility and everything.

No one said the frame book DIDN’T have frame data… Unfortunately, no one who has that book has posted in this thread… maybe it could help, i dunno.

15

Hi OneDumbGook

As you know, I’ve never written a single FAQ before so my comments mean nothing! And it is true that writing a FAQ for, say, Zombie Revenge or for KOF 98 Iori or for CvS2 Cammy takes no effort at all. Therefore, you’re right! You win! Who is this kcxj guy anyway :lol:

P.S.

:lol:

16

Did that guy just call James Chen an idiot? People nowadays I swear, JChen and other people do faqs like that to help other people learn the game, and you call him an idiot for it? Your a bitch.

17

You’re right, he did… what an odd little fellow.

18

You know I re-read it and it does sound like something a SF fanatic would write. Go figure. I guess I like this game a little bit too much. I’m still curious about the tendencies of A-Groove though. Putting my “multi-dimensional” convuluted mess of a post aside, anyone else have anything to add about CC’s?

Oh. And James Chen is not an idiot. But I can still be annoying.

19

Where’s the forum moderator already?

I’m tired of bullshit like this where somebody who obviously doesn’t know the basics of the game comes in and ruins a perfectly good thread. You try to be nice and help them out, but not only do they call you names, they say they’ll post whenever/whatever they want etc… etc…

Read the original post at least before you decide to make your posts/replies people. If the point of this thread was suppose to be taking newbie questions about how Rolento can shoot out four c.HP’s in the time it normally takes for one, then the author would of clearly labeled that in the title, as well as stated it in the first post. Instead some idiot just comes on and spams the thread full of unrelated and unsolicited garbage (what I should of called those posts in the first place… instead of actually taking the time to direct the poster to the answers).

Now I know for sure trying to talk to you is a waste of my time… Good Master Akuma impression there buddy.

Some useful CvS2 discussion this forum turned out to be huh?

marvelscrub/anybody else who’s genuinely interested in the game (and knows how to read):

Sorry, I just can’t post here anymore. I know you guys tried. I actually wanted to discuss the CC activation thing more in depth, but if this is what the thread is devolving into (ala every single other thread I’ve tried to make useful on here), then I quit.

CvS2 strategy zone on srk.com is now Gamefaqs.com forums number two (ie. it’s horrible). Not worth the effort anymore…

20

I just do my own thing and write stuff at my own pace

… this is probably why the anticipated completion date for the Cammy guide is sometime in 2007

Also it’s amusing to make fun of dumb people here :slight_smile: