Captain America Balance Suggestions and Discussions

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1

As Capcom have said they believe Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 needs rebalancing and they are interested in the input of the players, I thought we could have a Captain America specific adjustment discussion here. This can be for old and new Cap users, Cap mains or those that use him casually, and those who would just like to share their input on what changes Captain America should get or you could even suggest any new moves you would like Cap to have. Input isn’t even necessary; you can just check this out to see what people are suggesting. Hopefully we can get some good input and if any changes are made, they can incorporate some of our ideas.

To get this started, I’ll mention a few of the balancing ideas I think Cap could use (suggestions are in bold, explanations are the rest):

Lower float on Hyper Stars and Stripes- This is mainly to give Cap a practical DHC away from the corner as it is difficult to DHC from hyper charging star midscreen with most hypers.

Number of shield slashes per combo be subject to hit stun deterioration, rather than a number limit (3-4)- I believe you can only perform 3 shield slashes per combo (excluding the :l: OTG shield slash). I’d like for this to be instead subject to hit stun decay as shield slashes are already subject to damage scaling anyway. Would give him a pseudo-loop similar to his Vanilla versions, as well as possible x-factor shield slash loops. Though if meter building is a concern, they could reduce the meter it nets, similarly to (but not as bad) as Hawkeye’s hunter loops.

Off-the-ground (OTG) :l: shield slash always connects fully; more hit-stun to allow for follow up- Even if it was only the tiger-knee :l: shield slashes, I’d rather both hits were always guaranteed, with enough hitstun to follow up on after with his charging stars, for consistency. This is as even if you may currently have enough hitstun, the spacing could throw this off, and spacing is affected by numerous things, including opposing characters weight so it’s hard to definitively measure consistently.

Standing :h: moves Cap forward- Though it’s been a while since I’ve played around with it (no pun intended), I often found that at near full-length, although Cap’s standing H would connect, his return position would be too far away for his :s: to connect after. Moving him forward on the recovery of his standing :h: would remedy this.

push-back on his stars on stripes- His only real ‘get off me’ tool and a great anti-air, it could push the opponent back, on hit or block, to help his spacing, as he can’t convert off this even with assists anyway. If a trade off is necessary, you could increase his recovery time (on whiff), so that mis-timed stars and stripes could be punished slightly easier (though I’d rather it just pushed the opponent back without any risks lol)

anti-ground kick :d: + :h: hits deeper- will help with his infinite could potential give Cap a ‘Ricky Ortiz’; an instant overhead-ish move off x-factor canceled (air) normal

shield-slash draws opponent in slightly on hit/block: This would be so Cap can pull people in a little, to help (give him some) corner and incoming mix-ups.

2

I agree with all of the things that YawDan said. That being said, although mostly all of these changes are necessary, they are mostly minor and in the long run probably wouldn’t greatly affect his tier status in the game. I think if Cap were to be rebalanced to better match higher tiers, he would need something new about his gameplay to give him at least slightly more options, like an overhead or a command throw.

3

@tofurkey your comment gave me an idea… with regards to a Cap overhead, it is possible for him to instant overhead some characters with his air :l: or :m: , but he can’t convert off this. However, if they were to increase the start up on his air :s: , you could link his air :l: / :m: -> air :s: .

I’ve tried to suggest things that wouldn’t drastically change him deliberately, so as to not give him an unfair advantage. But if he were to gain an instant overhead conversion, I wouldn’t think it be too unfair, as he does really have plenty of options getting in, and there are characters with better buttons than him. So it could just be to help him in case he does get in [1].

Spoiler

1=he has got the cartwheel+assists, but that’s assist dependent; it would be good to help his individual capability

4

I haven’t put a ton of thought into Cap changes, but here are things I’d like to personally see:

  1. HS&S causing soft knockdown (or heavier hitstun at the end) to allow DHCs. Similar to your suggestion, but I don’t mind it popping the opponent up higher since it lets me do DHC into Giant Haggar Press for more damage.
  2. Anti-Ground Kick should have a huge hitbox. Like you shouldn’t be able to ground anti-air it unless you dash under and punish or something. Either that or change the name. It’s not like the move causes stagger, ground bounce, or hard knockdown.
  3. Heavy shield slash should always lead to a combo on hit. Give it a ton of hitstun but I guess a lot of deterioration since they don’t want loops. However, Cap just plain sucks against those who sj. fly or up back. He should at least be able to threaten them.
  4. Shield normals should have disjointed hitboxes similar to (but not as good as) sword normals.
  5. Don’t allow charging star to hit in a way that autocorrects the HCS in the wrong direction.
  6. This one’s a maybe, but shield slash should hit on the way back as long as Cap doesn’t get hit. So even if he blocks an attack, the shield should hit on the way back.

I think most of these changes make sense and wouldn’t really make Cap that much better, but would definitely lead to less frustration. I wouldn’t mind a down, down “Patriotic” powerup hyper either, but that’d probably just promote super dumb play lol.

5

I thought of something similar to your HS&S idea that I thought might’ve been a little far fetched, which was adding soft/hard knockdown to S&S, or at least allowing Cap some way to combo after it. It would give Cap a little more of an AA presence, but it could maintain its same bad recovery to keep it a little balanced.

6

I’m gonna give an air of caution to those changes previously listed, as I don’t fully agree. As much as I would love to see Cap fly up the tiers, I feel these don’t address his issues and would seek to just overpower him offensively which he doesn’t need. I think we need to look at what Cap does right and what he lacks in his game play. Also I feel that marvels top tiers need nerfs, I don’t buy into buffing everyone to that status to equal it all out, we’re just shooting at the hip with bazookas then and that’s dumb. His biggest issue anyway is air and runaway, I feel those are the problems he needs addressed.

Good
[list]
[]Good damage
[]3/4ths screen dominance over ground zoning
[]invincible hypers
[]double jump for movement
[]Decent conversions
[]great normals
[]anti-ground kick is amazing
[/list]
Bad
[list]
[]Has no answer to run away and air zoners
[]Cannot compete air to air with some characters
[]Fully reliant on assists to move in safely
[*]Without assists, unsafe attempts to get in will not always convert into respectable damage
[/list]

Cap is already a rush down power house with assists and good frame traps. I don’t believe he needs to have free ways to open the opponent up with mix ups given his style. I feel what’s better for him is tools to help him get in and stay in which is what he lacks. All efforts to do this are unsafe, baitable, assist dependent, and only 3/4s screen. Think of Taskmaster who has no real mix ups, but can constantly be a threat at all ranges with frame traps and counter hits. Cap should just have better ways to establish keeping in his effective range (mid - close) so that he can play to his strengths he already has. Currently the issue is since he has no mix up, his threat once he gets in is often temporary before being pushed away and doesn’t encourage the opponent to take the risks we need them to attempt. So buffs need to address:

How can I safely move in on an opponent?
What tools do I have to challenge opponents in the air?
How can I pin down runaway that can zone me full screen?

Proposed changes:
[list]
[]Buff Shield Slash - This can be many ways but here’s a small listing of various ideas
[list]
[]Shield reflects projectiles or nullifies beams
[]Shield beats out low and mid durability projectiles, but loses it’s 2nd hit on return if this occurs
[]New qcf+:s: version is added that does one of the above to make Cap choose his variation as this one will not combo without unless point blank into hyper or assist
[]Shield reaches full screen
[]Upon return Cap is immediately returned to neutral, making early bounces off projectiles allow him to quickly throw again or move freely
[]Shield can be charged by holding :atk: to add many of these properties
[]Reduce recovery frames
[/list]
[]c.:m:, :s:, j.:s: all nullify projectiles
[]Improve qcb+:h: so that opponents are less likely to fall out behind him when attempting qcb+:atk::atk: and getting lvl 3 instead.
[]dpf+:l: gains invincibility 1 frame earlier
[]Slightly decrease recovery on qcb+:h: to allow for more assists to safely cover (currently only Dante(weasel), Vergil(rapid), Task (h arrows - midscreen), and situational Doom(missiles) and sent(charge) can make this safe)
[]Reduce slide of qcb+:atk: after the final active frame
[]Longer knockdown on all throws except ground back throw
[]Sightly increase invincibility frames on :atk:+:s: to be better used as a movement tool through projectiles
[]qcb+:atk::atk: reaches full screen to allow for bigger threat of punish and better conversions off full screen DHC or tip range qcb+:h:
[/list]

Indirect Buffs:
[list]
[]Add more characters with better anti air/runaway assist options
[]Nerf air throw hitboxes universally (making anti-ground kick more useful
[/list]

I feel Cap is a risk/reward character. He has absurdly good normals as his way to play safe and be very scary with good priority, frame traps, and some pretty decent frames. It’s when you get to his specials and hypers that the risk/reward is too risky and often not versatile enough to handle all of caps problems. I feel these moves should remain very unsafe in nature, but become more effective in covering his gaps of gameplay or improving reward.

7

I really disagree with this one. I love how this move works. It’s very effective at putting Cap in his optimal range of out side most normals and with huge advantage so you can call an assist and Shield slash or charging star. As well It helps cap perform his optimal corner combo because of this property. Furthermore it also helps make kara roll more ambiguous by changing how deep into s.H you perform it, making the distance of the roll harder to gauge. I don’t really have any issue connecting with :s: after this move.

8

Proposed Buffs:

  • Give Stars and Stripes assist some invincibility so it has some use outside of doing random raw THC
  • Increase j.M hitbox upwards so awkward confirms can still hit or make j.uH jump cancellable
  • Increase range covered with Hyper Charging star so he can deal with braindead full screen keepaway slightly better
  • Make opponent fall faster after last hit of Hyper Stars and Stripes so it is easier to combo into something like a beam hyper.
  • Make one of the Stars & Stripes not push the opponent so high so it is possible to X Factor Cancel into a combo meterless (a nice Bionic Arm punisher)
  • Make Cap fall faster after an air Shield Slash (this may make him a little too powerful)

Nerfs:

  • Reduce blockstun on St.S so it is no longer safe on block for most chars
  • Put some ground recovery on Hyper Stars and Stripes

Honestly, he doesn’t really need half of the buffs I’ve said. It’s just some things that would’ve made my life slightly easier in some matches over the years.

9

Don’t agree with those nerfs at all. How do you propose Cap safely try to attack the opponent? At most ranges, shield slash is unsafe and a lot of times it’s more of a guess on how the opponent will approach than anything else (because of its terrible properties). Most of Cap’s normals are unsafe. His cr moves don’t chain into themselves and ending with them is a deathwish. So if Cap gets close, he better be hella confident that his moves are going to hit otherwise he gets punished for even trying to attack? Also, Hyper S&S is punishable enough as it is. If the opponent isn’t good enough to hit Cap while he’s in the air, then that’s their problem. It’s not like it’s -1 or something.

The thing about character balancing is that everyone wants to be perceived as unbiased and fair. However, if you think about it, you can give Cap Am a ground bounce on his anti-ground kick, full screen charging star/hyper charging star range, chainable cr. Ls, and 1.1 mil health and he STILL wouldn’t be top 5 in the game. Maybe not even top 10.

10

Once again those changes don’t address his match up issues. Caps up close games is really not a problem. We can argue small things like the j.M being more consistent or easier DHC on Hyper S&S, but those really aren’t what’s holding him back. Also I cant really see any nerfs Cap needs. I don’t think he possesses anything outside his design that would be considered too good. Not sure why he needs an unsafe launcher when all his specials are a death wish if not covered by an assist.

Cap can’t beat runaway and air, lets focus on that issue.

11

This is why I think S&S needs to get buffed somehow. Of all the changes you listed, none of them directly deal with Cap’s anti-air issues. S&S could be a viable AA option if it actually did meaningful damage or if there were a way to more reliably convert it into actual damage. I don’t think a change like this would drastically change his gameplay, but it would give him another defensive option which would help him maintain a level of threat even after getting pushblocked. In practice it would sort of function like a worse Lariat.

I do like the idea of some of your Shield Slash changes, though. I think the main thing it needs is better recovery, but it would also be great if it had real durability as well. I think the QCF+S idea would take care of that pretty well, but what would the angle on it be? Ground only? QCF+L’s angle? I would prefer this over having to hold a button though, as Shield Slash is already slow to come out. In my mind I see this “projectile clearing version” almost functioning like Viper’s Optic Blast, so it should be able to be done fast enough to be able to be threatening to full-screen zoning.

I disagree with both of these proposed nerfs. If Cap isn’t going to have real mixups, then at the very least he needs safe blockstrings. Cap as it is already has plenty of other punishable moves (ie. his specials). There’s no reason to make him even more punishable and thus make Cap players afraid to push any other button besides c.L. The same goes for Hyper Stars and Stripes. It’s already air punishable by some characters, and I’m pretty sure every character can air throw it on block. No reason to make it any worse than that.

As far as st.H goes, I like the way it functions as it is for the reasons that ifb listed. If it was going to get any improvement, I would like to see it be a little faster or have slightly better recovery. Neither is really necessary though.

12

Cap’s air issues typically aren’t within S & S range. To be honest his raw :s: is a stupid good ground to air, as well as qcb+:l:. Cap’s air issues are more about characters that can throw projectiles and still have options after. Trish, Doom,Task, Zero, Morrigan, Wesker are characters that can simply dominate him from the air because their projectile angle and superior air normals and movement. You can’t throw SS because there’s likely a projectile already out and getting underneathe them is VERY risky. Cap simply is forced to jump around or make them come to you because he simply doesn’t have a way to mount an offense without the right assist which limits his team options with all his other issues. There’s also characters like Dormammu who can teleport away and use normals to hit SS back till he can reestablish his pinning game and drop carpets. Hawkeye can pretty much jump backwards with arrows all day till you get him in the corner and then you have to make absolutely sure you can keep him boxed in.

Cap just needs one move to break their momentum and force them to have to deal with him. Having an SS that hits once just to knock them down and run up on them would be all he needs. He just needs a way in. You can say use assists, but some zoning shells can keep cap out of range and punish assists. My friend runs Wesker/strange(bolts) and I’m pretty much reduced to double jumping around till i can line up a j.d+:h:. I would say he needs horizontal angle. Cap can CS or roll through projectiles, but the recovery is so bad that they can either punish you still or get away for free and restart. You’re only options are his wave dash and jumping…

I do agree S&S needs some buff. I proposed 1 frame earlier invinc on dpf+:l: because he isn’t invincible on his 1st active frame. This is his only version that he can hit confirm into a hyper, the others require a super fast prebuffer and will only work if the 1st active frame hits. If he needed more, I would say let dpf+:atk: be cancelable into qcf+:atk: but that might be overkill. I still effectively use his S&S in my game plan, but it could use a little more love to justify more usage. Personally being able to do it with more assists to make it safe would be nicer, but as is it’s super limited to which ones play nicely (log trap!!!)

There’s other ideas to be had as well, If we wanna get crazy, giving cap a new hyper mode that gives him projectile armor (shields is deflecting) and acts as a safe cancel would make the man a beast. He’d have a way to muscle his way in and he could make things safe. I’m just not sure if this drastic change would be the best idea rather than expanding what we have.

13

I think Captain America’s design is fine for the most part. Any of his weaknesses can be covered by assists. His only real disadvantage I feel is that there are only a handful of characters that can really help him. And that he still loses to Zero and MorriDoom regardless [1]. But that’s most of the cast anyway.

I like that people have different suggestions. This discussion would work better if it was open so we can address more of his issues than just one or two aspects of his game.

I’ve got a few comments regarding a few points-

EDIT: I’ve just tested it. At standing :h: max range, :s: will not connect, and neither will Cap’s :l: charging star. You can only foolow up with his :m: / :h: charging star, or hyper charging star. No other hypers, normals, or special moves will connect.

I tried using Frank West’s shopping cart assist and Cap’s Cartwheel to close the gap, but it didn’t work. The characters were too far our of range for the cartwheel to cross-up too.

However, there would be wider implications of this suggestion, and it was really in the instances I looked into that I think there could be some tweaks. I’d just rather be able to do more than charging star or hyper after similar confirms.

@MyNameIsE & @SmokeMaxx / @tofurkey:

just to clarify, grounded :s: is -4 on block, however it has pushback on it. So midscreen, it will push opponents out of range to punish Cap. However, in the corner, it can be punished by those with fast enough normals. I don’t think this nerf is too necessary as it may punish Cap players that use it smartly.

Most characters moves recover when they land; this isn’t unique to Cap. Furthermore, to put Captain America’s Stars and Stripes properties aren’t the best- to put them into perspective, I’ve copied the frame data from stars and stripes from his frame data thread Super Soldier Formula?! MvC3 Captain America frame data and damage ratings and showed Zero’s Ryuenjin’s frames on recovery | advantage on hit |advantage on block):

[details=Spoiler]Stars & Stripes L
Hits: 1
Damage: 80,000
Startup: 5
Active: 5
Recovery: 44
Advantage on hit: -25
Advantage if guarded: -27
note Invincible from frame 1-4

Stars & Stripes M
Hits: 2
Damage: 104,500
Startup: 5
Active: 11
Recovery: 50
Advantage on hit: -32
Advantage if guarded: -39
note Invincible from frame 1-6

Stars & Stripes H
Hits: 3
Damage: 135,400
Startup: 5
Active: 12
Recovery: 57
Advantage on hit: -37
Advantage if guarded: -47
note Invincible from frame 1-9

Zero’s Ryuenjin:

Ryuenjin :l:: 24 | -9 | -11 |
Ryuenjin:m:: 21 | -4 | -10 |
Ryuenjin:h:: | 21 | -6 | -20 |[/details]

I’ve seen a lot of people ask for a new shield slash move and perhaps a power-up move. Kind of like how Ryu got buffed from Vanilla to Ultimate. These seem kind of cool. And some of the shield slash rebalances sound really good.

Spoiler

1= If Zero and MorriDoom get toned down enough that the cast have a realistic chance of fighting them, then there wouldn’t be a match-up that I feel cap can’t deal with using the right characters.

14

I don’t want to deter people from other aspects of his game. My worry is that what I feel are his biggest issues are unmentioned alongside. Currently Cap is reeeeeally stretched with getting teammates to fill all his issues and what you wind up with leads to issues of how well the other two characters play together and if you have a valid anchor. I also realized snapping Cap to anchor can be devastating. At home I play about 30 people offline and my consensus is certain zoning and run away tactics can pretty much nullify Cap’s solo game and only a few assists can really help, at one point you have to ask yourself “Why am I even using Cap?” when other characters need much less team support to cover the same issues.

In terms of rush down and pressure I’ve found him every solid. When I’m in range his normals and constant threat of CS + assist makes people really careful. It’s once they start a keep out shell that is out of CS range and too projectile heavy to move through, that my options become very limited. I feel one major change is simply making CS H recover slightly quicker so that more horizontal assists can cover him to get in (A lot of people are ignorant to the fact every other assists leaves a throw gap either between the assist connecting or on recovery this includes IM (beam)). If Cap didn’t have to worry so much about safety, he would have more freedom to address his other issues. I personally MUST have an assist that keeps CS M safe and can safe DHC. I see a lot of Caps forming teams that don’t do this and while it may open up other options, I feel it takes away one of the most threatening but otherwise risky elements of his game.

My biggest issue is air and run away. Your only options are Strider and Doom (missiles) in most cases and both aren’t a complete answer (I’ve had a few zoning teams keep cap out while hitting doom before the missiles could come out). You can also do ground beams, but even then a few characters can just keep above you. I feel that if you buff j.SS he can at least use it to get at them or help move him in, cuz right now i feel they can throw their own projectile, bounce the SS, and get free advantage as i have to fall and with no options till I land. Really Cap can’t do anything about someone just holding up and back. You have to pin them down on the ground or get within grab range to make him effective right now.

Things I need assists to do currently:
[list]
[]Get Cap in safely with either full screen horizontal projectile or make CS safe
[]Safe DHCs
[]Roll through cross up
[]Some answer to run away zoning
[]An incoming mix up
[]A block string set up
[]Can combo off hypers
[]Throw conversion
[/list]
Trying to get all that and have the last two characters help each other and one be a good anchor can be hard. You also are seriously at risk of a snap back situation that pretty much makes Cap a dead character if he cant get back in.

That just makes me sad…

15

A Special version of Shield Slash should allow Cap to control the path of the shield in any direction before the Shield hits. To control the path of the shield, just press Up, Down or Towards. You can’t control the shield by pressing back. It should function like Kung Lao’s Hat Toss but it should also allow it to reach at the super jump height.

Returning Shield should stay active when Cap is blocking an attack. Shield Slash should stay active when Cap is being hit.
The shield should bounce off the wall so that the shield returns faster

http://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/5918/

Cap needs to retain some of his normals from older games. At the 7th column where Cap hit his shield upward would be a good anti-air normal. It looks like he could reflect projectiles thrown from a super jump height. This should be command normal instead since there only 4 attack buttons.

Double Jump should be a slightly higher so he can punish Doom at a very high super jump height to prevent him from DHCing, and double jump over Hawkeye jump back arrows(Max normal jump height). It should make him fall down slightly faster at the end so that cap doesn’t land on another projectile or beam when he lands.

The only buff that I don’t really want is the buffs that would make Cap overpowered, braindead or S/Top tier. I also don’t want a health increase when he has 1 million health already.

16

-stars & stripes given projectile negating properties like charging star during its ascent along with increased vertical trajectory on s&s H (like MSH). startup invincibility frames on s&s increased slightly (by about 2 frames).
-shield normals negate projectiles
-maybe f+C command normal like his old s. fierce, maybe with new properties
-lower minimum height restriction on tk shield slashes
new alternate inspired by Demolition Man…

Spoiler

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/DennisDunphyDman.gif

http://a404.idata.over-blog.com/0/13/66/96/Customs/330.jpg

17

Raising threads from the dead ^^;

Things I’d like:

  • One+ version of Charging Star ‘breaks’ beams, not just invul while active. Carries over to Assist version.
    Given that he charges through with a shield, you’d kind of expect for him to be able to do this no problem. I always found it puzzling he couldn’t break through them, only stay immune while the frames are active. Heck, I’d be cool if the L version was the only one that could do it. It would certainly help against full range teams. Even then, I’d ‘really’ like the assist version to have this property. I don’t get why only Akuma has it.

  • Shield Slash has higher hitstun.
    More for better ways to convert to combos than anything. This applies to throws, and tagging Aerial opponents from the shield’s maximum range. Also would open up more combo options for creativity.

  • Easier way to solo combo after any throw, including air versions.
    Same as above. While throw -> L Shield Slash -> Hyper is decent, this would help him out more when he doesn’t have an assist to help pile on damage.

  • SnS has higher fixed hitstun/higher knockback on last hit.
    At maximum hitstun the opponent recovers quickly, and too close to cap. Given the situation, I think there should be more space between the opponent and cap so they can’t just call out an assist or air dash down to punish Cap on recovery.

-SnS is easier to convert into a combo via X-Factor cancel.
This might contradict the previous line, but it would be a nice bonus.

  • Cartwheel is cancelable into special moves, has ‘some’ throw invul, or slightly higher invul. Make it possible to call assists while in Cartwheel.
    If Frank can do it @ lvl2, why not Cap? All things considered, he still can’t convert to a full combo without assists or spending meter/X-Factor, so this shouldn’t make things too crazy. This would also supplement his incoming mixups better.

  • A new move to help address runaway or help in locking down the opponent.
    I can’t think of one for the life of me, but he needs a new move for the sake of diversifying the character. I’d like that move to address a critical problem with Cap when he fights against flyers.

  • Better anti-air or Air-to-Air options to combat opponents above normal jump height and Super Jump height.
    He ‘can’ combo opponents from those heights, but they’re generally too specific or it’s too situational. I’d like some of his options improved so he’ll be at a better positional advantage against the opponent when he returns to the ground.

  • More of a window to follow up after a Lvl3.
    I know it wasn’t intentional, but it would be nice to convert off a lvl3 anywhere in the screen.

What I wish:

  • Command throw. ^^;
    I can’t think of a legitimate reason. His damage output is quite high and it’ll offset the reason for needing this in the first place. Though this ‘would’ help with dealing with opponents that are tricky to crack open.
  • Better Disjointed hitboxes with any normal that uses the Shield.
    Cr. M, St. S, j.S. Since it’s a shield, it would be nice if they disjointed the hurtbox range some more when using these normals. Since it’s a shield, and you shouldn’t be able to ‘hurt’ the shield as it’s a piece of metal and not spiritually connected to Cap or anything.

Given these aspects, what I’d expect in tradeoff is an overall reduction in damage output, or slightly reduced health, maybe to a clean 1 million instead of 1.04 mil he’s currently at.

Cap generally does a solid amount of damage. His normals are solid, and his specials have their risk/rewards. Considering how good they are…Shield Slash is good when used at the proper range, CS is meant as a punish for the opponent doing something stupid (plus I haven’t seen anyone able to react to it in close range. It’s almost as good as a wake up DP), Cartwheel grants invul, and SnS is a DP. All of these moves have standout strengths, so I think for what they have, they should have an equal amount of risk attached to them.

Also: St. H at max range isn’t meant to be comboable into S. I think for what it has, it’s meant to ‘push’ the opponent away at that range, especially on block. Either way, you still have enough time to follow up with a Charging Star.

18

Non Recommended Changes or New moves by me

  • SnS is double jump cancelable but scales damage slighly

  • St.:m: has an autoguard property since it looks Cap is blocking with the shield while attacking at the same time

  • New special move where Cap can use his shield to reflect projectiles and redirect beams similar to how Link from Zelda does it with Mirror Shield

  • New slide kick

  • One Way Air Dash (this is intro pose done from MvC2)

  • Judo/Aikido style command grab (scales damage)

  • Rapid Fire property cr.:l:

  • Dive Punch with autoguard property (looks like a diagonal charging star with handstand position done from the air)

  • New special move besides Cartwheel used for ground mobility (needs to have agility)

  • Wall Jump

  • New special move used for defensive options (parry/counter)

19

Wanted to update my list from the old:

[list]
[]qcf+:atk: reflects low/mid projectiles and destroys beams
[]Slightly increase qcf+:atk: projectile speed
[]On return after j.qcf+:atk:, Cap is free to do other actions if still airborne
[]c.:m:, :s:, j.:s: all nullify projectiles
[]Improve qcb+:h: so that opponents are less likely to fall out behind him when attempting qcb+:atk::atk: and getting lvl 3 instead.
[]dpf+:l: gains invincibility 1 frame earlier
[]Slightly decrease recovery on qcb+:h: to allow for more assists to safely cover (currently only Dante(weasel), Vergil(rapid), Task (h arrows - midscreen), and situational Doom(missiles) and sent(charge) can make this safe)
[]Longer knockdown on all throws except ground back throw
[]Sightly increase invincibility frames on :atk:+:s: to be better used as a movement tool through projectiles
[]:atk:+:s: can be aimed forward or backward to make it a viable escape tool
[*]qcb+:atk::atk: reaches full screen to allow for bigger threat of punish and better conversions off full screen DHC or tip range qcb+:h:
[/list]

20

I actually like how Cap is for the most part right now. Maybe change his SS to allow slightly longer combos and for better use as a combo extender as an assist. However if I may add a buff:

Stars and Stripes had total invincibility from start up till the end of its active frames.

Think about it. How many times have you used S&S? I don’t know about you guys but I don’t use it a lot. There is not much of a point. Sure it is fast but the invincibility goes away too quickly and you don’t get much out of it. I thought about this after trying to see if I can use it to go through Morrigan’s shooting air fireballs downward at close range. Using the H version, Cap always got hit out it. Why? Many other characters have uppercut moves that are invincible AND they can make them save. So by giving him this, it just gives him a high risk option of getting out of or dealing with some situations that he can only make safe by using X-Factor.