Seriously. What the hell are you talking about? Homogenization of characters makes the game completely not worth playing. By that rationale, DOA is a superior fighter to VF because it has universal counters. Crack smoke? I think so.
Again, I’ll reiterate: What the hell is this? Name ONE tourney game where multiple characters can do an 80% combo reliably. Not fancy Heisman-video stuff, real matches where people actually pull something like that off and it’s not a miracle. What, because somebody pulled a Hail Mary ONE time in a game, they should institute a “Maximum Pass Range” rule in the NFL? Negro please.
Gross generalizations like this are the downfall of fighting games. If you don’t know squat, then pipe down.
Re: Re: Re: Capcom fighters have too many fancy extras!
It’s not imperative to be “Parry-perfect”, you simply have to know the opponent’s capabilites in reference to your own. It’s not that Q’s bad, it’s that Ken’s really, really good. But the virtue of 3s is that you don’t have to worry about your big-ass Inspector Gadget caught in obvious traps, like fireball-uppercut. Now, some people want to stick with the same old stuff forever, and while I won’t knock that specifically, I can definitely say It Ain’t For Me. Fireball-uppercut is weak. It’s one thing if a trap is well thought out, but when it just comes down to “My character is too damn big to do much about it”, that’s hokey.
Outside of that, playing Low-tier characters just makes some people happy. I play Twel(e)ve. I enjoy it. I win a lot of times just because no one picks him, so they have no idea what to do against him. Very ninja. Now, I’d probably have a much easier time using Ken, but if I was stuck in Shoto-hell I’dve probably quit playing years ago. It’s all about variety and props. When you win with Twelve, or Q, or (god forbid) Sean, people respect you more. You just feel like a better person. Apoc uses A-Balrog for god sakes, he knows what I’m talking about. When you clock a V-player in the face, it feels… Better. Homogenizing the characters is a terrible idea.
I think so far (in 2D) Guilty Gear XX/#R has probably done the best job of keeping all of the characters nearly balanced while still wildly unique. There aren’t a hell of a lot of gimmicks and universal bollocks, just umpteen different characters and playstyles. When a top-tier like Slayer is deathly afraid of an Ultra-Heavy like Potemkin, that’s hot. I hope more games follow suit.
Heh, if we go in the same vein as you were going Apoc, you are implying that checkers is a deeper game than Chess. Chess has multiple pieces, all of which do different things, similar to the new “additions” such as parry, roll, etc. Checkers is much simpler, and, again, doesn’t have any of these artificial means of balancing. All you can do is move forward, or jump pieces. Only a fool would argue that checkers is deeper than chess.
I don’t like parry and roll either, as I consider them copouts. I do like run, hops, and VCs (the A3 incarnation…its what makes A3 so much fun). GGXX has plenty of these “balancing the field” options, yet I don’t really feel that these ruin the game. Sure, it kind of annoys me that I cant force my opponent to play a poking game with me…but whatever. It’s not SF, and I can live with that.
I don’t know whether you simple hate there being more options, or if you dislike bad/scrubby/easy ways out of things. I am basically against randomness, and believe that everything should pretty much have natural counters. I think parrying and rolling promote randomness, and basically lock down the game because people need to watch out for them, and that is why I dont like either of them. That issue can be for another thread though i guess.
fighting games are suppose to evolve, not devolve. Its like 3D rpg games going back to 2D rpgs all over again. so if you want originality, go back to playing the old games or you can play KOF.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Capcom fighters have too many fancy extras!
Let me apologize in advance for any poorly written statements or incomprehensible ramblings or inappropriate transitions. I’m extremely drunk and just got back from a big fight at a frat, so I might not be in the best shape to write an intelligible response.
Actually, I’m a Q user. I use Q exclusively. When I say I think Q sucks, it’s not out of ignorance. It’s not like I hear oh, Q is bad, he has no chance against Ken (for example), and take that to heart. I play with Q better than anyone I’ve come across, and while I by no means harbor any fantasies of being one of the great Q users, I do have a rather intimate knowledge of his capabilities. And let me say, Q is a pretty crappy character. Sure, I give all the characters a run for their money with him, but in the end, I’ll lose more than I’ll win against a good player. And how does Third Strike propose to solve that disparity? It offers the parrying system.
See, I think that’s a cop out. If I were to master parrying, I could beat anyone with Q. But you know what? Anyone can master parrying, and if everyone does, Chun Li and Ken and Yun will still be way better than Q is. The only time parrying can make me win is when I’m facing opponents who are worse than I am. All else equal, parrying doesn’t make the playing field even, despite its attempt at doing so. The only way it can do that is if both players parry everything, and in that case the game just sucks. Capcom tried to put the parry in to make the game balanced, and it didn’t work. All it did was give us some artificial fool’s gold balancing.
As for the fireball trap, I think that’s a great thing. It’s a powerful technique for a good Ryu or Old Ken player to employ. I don’t see anything wrong with it at all. And the size of a character doesn’t have much to do with him getting out of a fireball trap. Heck, Zangief and Balrog can get out of that kind of thing.
GGXX does do a good job of balancing the characters, that’s true. There are a lot of universal things, but there’s not really anything akin to the parry in that game. I like the game a lot. Frankly, though, I think the playstyles in Hyper Fighting are just as varied as in GGXX and that the game is even more balanced, and it doesn’t use supers or bursts or faultless defense or whatever to help it get there. It’s balanced solely on the characters themselves.
In a parry-perfect world, Hugo is the best possible character.
Hyper Fighting isn’t “better” than Guilty Gear just because it’s older.
Ken is arguably the best character in the game. When you pick Q, you know it’s going to be uphill. Either work hard or don’t, it’s not the game’s problem. What else could they do? Seriously, and this goes for anyone still complaining about parrying, WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO? Stick to the same old character designs and movesets forever? What, you think it’s easier to win with Zangief versus Ken in SF2 Games? It’s not parrying’s fault, Low Tier is Low Tier. If you want to pick a character without projectiles or free anti-airs, then do so and stop complaining about it.
Twelve versus Ken is literally impossible. But I don’t yap about the game being unplayable all day because of it, I just rack my brain trying to think of counters. Parrying is a big one. If not for parrying, how else could they have half of the new characters? Fireball-uppercut can’t be the rule of the day forever. Freakin’ Evolve, people.
What I really meant was the fact that Capcom spent about 30 seconds designing Twel(e)ve. A blob of white playdoh? c’mon. He’s pretty much Necro with no texture and shitty super arts.
Re: Re: Re: Capcom fighters have too many fancy extras!
This argument is basically just like the game A vs game B argument: it all comes down to what kind of bullshit you can tolerate in a fighting game (or in some people’s cases, refusing to let go of the past and embracing any sort of changes).
This applies to situations without supers also. HF Ryu? Pretty much any WW or CE character? Ochio/Dhalsim/Balrog/N.Ken tick grab loops (against certain characters)? Let’s not forget about the lovable random dizzies also.
If a cornered Zangief does roll FAB on you successfully, then either your corner-pressuring skills need a lot of work or the Zangief player simply out-guessed/played you. Guess what? It’s the same thing in older games! I’m HF Chun cornered by Ryu. I randomly jump (which happens to be perfectly timed) and land a jump in fierce. I proceed to mash out a strong fierce combo for 50% and dizzy. Is that skill? Why?
The danger of corners are just as prevalent in modern fighters as the older ones. If CvS2 Blanka is cornered by Sagat, he’s very likely to die. Same goes for 3S Chun cornered by Ken (and vice versa), or MvC2 Sent/Capcom cornering anybody. Can you corner trap with the same methods that you could 15 years ago? No. You need to employ more footwork and use more than two moves now. Is being cornered any less deadly than it was before? Not really. Do you feel the same sense of accomplishment when you get out of the corner against a skillful player? Yes.
Right, the infinites are SO easy to do in Alpha 3. And every single character has an 80% VC off of crouching short. My mistake.
I said games that count. Get EX the hell outta here.
Since when is it easy to land an infinite in any game except XmenvsSF? Even in Marvel, they don’t do a HELL of a lot of damage and they’re relatively difficult to land consistently. Unless of course you’re playing against people who have no idea what the hell they’re doing… but you wouldn’t be one of those, ne?
If you are implying that landing a standing 720 is a simple task, you’re much, much less informed than your previous (and seriously ignorant of fact) posts would lead one to believe. I’ll have to state it again, if you’ve no idea what you’re talking about, pipe down.
It doesn’t have to be standing to do damage. There are dozens of setups, so yes, landing them IS fairly common. I don’t know why you’re getting so irate about this. All I said was that it’s now easier to kill people than in the past. That’s all. It’s fact. There’s no point in disagreeing.
im sorry but what? if my memory serves me right a hurricane kick to a dragon punch took more than 50% of your life in sf2. and what about the 2 taps and then a throw. since there was no techs u couldnt get out of that. and throws did a crap load of dmg. when blanka got hit out of his ball id look at the life bar and question to myself wtf happened to my life!!
although the games of today od have massive bs and ways to kill someone fast u cant tell me its easier to kill someone now. with all the new features there is more to watch out for and many more ways of getting out of traps, throws, and what not. dont give me this shit about its easier now. in sf2 if u landed like 3 hits in a row it was a fucking dizzy.
and its not a fact that its easier now its an opinion. i dont recall ken doing more than 50% from a hurricane+dp in cvs2.
Hurricane kick to dragon punch is no way a combo is SF2, whatever version (except for Akuma is ST), nor would it deal 50% damage even in WW.
There were no techs nor reversals in early SFs. However, in any instance where you block and be thrown you can also throw. There was an old argument about being thrown during blockstun in World Warrior, but this has never been conclusively proven even in an emulator.
