i do it after they whiff stuff… like an srk or whatever where they think they might be safe…
also if you can get them to try to hit you out of cannon drill spam with low NORMALS, then that is another good time to do it… for example, i mix up
cr.MK, cr.MP, hooligan
cr.MK, cr.MP, LK Cannon spike
cr.MK, throw
To give you an idea the best times to do it is when you’ve got them in a position where they are either blocking, or trying to get you with normals, most specials kill hooligan flat out, though sometimes you get one of those WTF instances where it still throws them. Just be warned, hooligan can be very easy to stop for many characters.
To get them to think about blocking the main thing is to keep them guessing with “random” DPs, or situations where she has the advantage, like after a blocked spin knuckle, or a good custom string, not to mention changing up your timing, for example, throwing out a string, waiting a moment and then reacting with a DP or hooligan… if you can keep them scared of getting hit by a psychic DP then you will be more successful with a hooligan throw.
Word! I was a victim of those tactics. It was especially effective with Cammy’s typical aggressive pressuring, I had hell of a time guessing what Syxx was going to do next, so I either ate his “random” DPs or his timed hooligans. I am practicing my Cammy to mix them up like his. It was an eye opener for me to see a great player pulling off these “psychic” moves :wgrin:
^^ Yeah I’ll probably get my ass handed to me. I struggle Cammy vs Chun. If I have a bad matchup for Chun I usually have a counter pic character that I can go to. I don’t really have an answer for Cammy other than fighting through it with Chun. I guess I can super turtle with Honda but that proves nothing, personally I think that matchup is still broken.
Yeah, I guess that was a bit harsh. I was having a bad day, my apologies.
I’m still right though. Training mode is not a viable way to test this stuff because the computer can do things that you simply can’t do at the helm of a regular joystick.
I lost a mm to a straight ryu player… i’m gonna post the vids… maybe some of u guys can give me some help with the matchup and finding holes. I made a few notation errors that cost me yesterday but I need help more with general strategy against a solid Ryu. I’ll post the vids up tonight.
Doubt this is supposed to happen, but Cammy’s backfist keeps whiffing when done close to Ryu doing a fireball. The move is supposed to hit, no reason why it shouldn’t. Glitch?
ryu during fireball has a very weird hitbox… also the backfist has a weird hitbox as well. Sometimes the backfist will only hit 1 time… sometimes 2 times. When it hits 2 times it reallllly hurts.
Wait, your going to upload a vid of you losing? Only?
Hey, no problem with a loss since your looking for help. But what about one where you win a few? Ya know, to see some strategies in action and stuff?
Oh btw, when you upload the video, a description of what you were trying to do or the combo you executed in the videdo description would be awesome and helpful
This is just the first part of the MM, It ended up being 10-8 but I could use all the help I can get to win this matchup more consistantly, and I don’t mean by not screwing up TY
Need serious help Cammy vs Turtle Honda. I need help against someone with clue on how to play honda properly but on purpose turtles against cammy. I feel so hopeless against that style of Honda. Can’t tick->throw because of Ochio counter. Can’t hooligan because of always charged Torpedo, can’t even drill because of stupid c.jab or torpedo. Only thing I can do is to bait torpedo and reversal SRK against it, but the timing is so difficult and if fell behind in life bars, its pretty much game over.
I only watched this match, but to be honest, Syxx, it doesn’t look like you’re doing anything wrong. The match is in Ryu’s favor and, sadly, if Antonio had used more Fake Fireballs, I think the fight would have been tougher. But for the most part, you aren’t doing anything fundamentally wrong. You do a lot of things better than I do! I rarely go for Cross-ups, which is a stupid thing on my part. But yeah, I htink overall, your Cammy looked really good.
There are some areas I did notice, and these are all small things, but added up they may make a big difference. So here are the few things I will point out:
Buffering - I have mentioned in a few posts that low Forward poke DO NOT BUFFER and then Drill / Hooligan is a good tactic. I guess what I should mention is that it is a good tactic ALONGSIDE Buffering Low Forward. I rarely saw you buffer Low Forward, if ever, and Buffering the tip of Low Forward into Short Cannon Drill is, in fact, still her main form of offense. It’s when people start countering it easily that you need to switch to the not-buffering version. Or you just mix up between the two to just create a sense of unexpectedness, so your opponent is never always looking for the buffer. If you buffer 100% of the time, it gives them the ability to stay in tuned to it and to react to Hooligans easier. If you do buffers and no buffers, the timing is all confusing, and them trying to react to Hooligans can get them to eat non-buffered Cannon Drills for free.
Mindless Attacking - Haha, given the title, you’re gonna think I’m accusing you of mindless attacking. On the contrary, I’m doing the opposite: you are not doing ENOUGH mindless attacking. Taking a page from the book of Daigo, taking damage is just part of the game, much like hurting oneself and taxes is a part of life. Sometimes you can’t be too scared of taking damage. I noticed that a lot of times after a Blocked Short Cannon Drill, you freeze. You stop and wait to see what happens next. I actually recommend, once in a while, more often than not, actually, to just go on attacking barrages. This takes a lot of visual distancing, but if you see the Short Cannon Drill hit at the tip, just do another one right away. Don’t try to see what happens next. And if the Short Cannon Drill hits a bit closer, do a Crouch Forward into Short Cannon Drill instead. So you can actually do stuff like tip of Low Forward XX Short Cannon Drill, Short Cannon Drill, tip of Low Forward XX Short Cannon Drill. Just for the offense and oftentimes, enemies will just run into stuff. When they start countering it, then you can play a more safe and patient waiting and reacting game, but otherwise, if they haven’t proven to you that they can stop your offensive barrage, there is little reason not to go for it. Keep them guessing, never give them the chance to stop and gather themselves.
Stand Forward - At the magical distance where you and Ryu cannot hit each other but are about as close as you can get without being able to hit each other, Standing Forward becomes a GREAT poke. Now, you have to make sure you are in a situation where the both of you are generally at a standstill… if you are already on the offense or if Ryu is sort of already pressuring you, don’t use this move. But if you are both in the midst of that footsie game where currently no one has the advantage, Standing Forward becomes your friend. At the right distance, if you throw it out, it STOPS Ryu’s Fireballs. So even though you throw it out and it whiffs, you’ll find sometimes that Ryu will throw a Fireball and lean into the kick and it’ll get stuffed. Now, a LOT of times, Ryus try to throw another Fireball immediately, which gives you a free Jump in Combo. But good Ryus won’t, so be careful. But in general, at that range, it’s a good move to throw out to discourage him from throwing Fireballs. Ryu getting hit by it occassionally will give you more opportunities to throw out Cannon Drills without fear of them losing to Fireballs.
Neutral - The last thing I’ll point out is an over-reliance on Low Blocking. Cammy is fast, and you need to take advantage of it, and while this sounds like odd advice, I actually would train yourself to stop relying on Low Blocking. Oftentimes, during the footsie games, I would find you Low Blocking and waiting to see what happens. Or not doing much. Instead, when you find yourself in those situations, do not Low Block, leave the joystick in neutral! There isn’t much Ryu can do from that distance other than hit you with a Fireball. And if he hits you, you take a Fireball… not a big deal. That’s the most damage he can do to you. But if oyu stay at Neutral, you’ll find YOUR ability to counter things to be much greater. There are a lot of times he whiffed Jab DPs and you could not counter thme in time because you were Low Blocking. Even moves that whiff cause you to go into Block animation, which causes delay and does not allow you to move for a brief period. If you stayed in Neutral, as SOON as you see Ryu miss the Jab DP, you can immediately walk forward and peg him with a Stad Forward out of the air. Or if you see him whiff sweeps, you can immediately go on the attack. Staying in Block actually hinders you because they freeze you. In fact, really pro Ryu players KNOW that if the opponnet loves to Low Block, they whiff quick moves on purpose and then throw Fireballs. You go into whiff block stun, and then you do not have enough time to Jump over the Fireball anymore at closer ranges. So learn to start using Neutral to not move when you are in that distance where Ryu cannot Sweep you during the Footsie games. YES, you’ll eat a lot more Fireballs as a result, but it’ll help the game overall.
Hope that helps. Even though I’ve written a novel, I will say that your Cammy looks great, and I don’t think there is anything fundamentally wrong with it. These four things will HELP you, but they aren’t going to take your game to new heights because your Cammy is already really solid.
Syxx plays a very good Cammy, but he doesn’t dance much.
James urges everyone not to abuse the hooligan, but with all due respect, I say heck with that. Let your opponent know that you are ready and willing to fly up and grab his turtle ass at any time. If he thinks that you probably won’t go for it, and he’s right, that’s bad for you, not him. I say let him know that it’s as much an option as anything else. Make him nervous and therefore more likely to F up.
A lot of people who find themselves facing my Cammy often jump so much you’d think the ground was burning. Some people will corner themselves by jumping backward, putting themselves into the worst possible position out of raw fear of the hooligan roll. Love it.
Hooligan mix-ups are where it’s at. Make your opponent expect a hooligan without knowing when it will come. Watch him jump backward and throw out uppercuts and footsie from ridiculous ranges that clearly indicate his newly found respect – no, fear – of the move. Hell, I just beat Afro Legends’ Ryu 3 rounds to 1 in a ranked match (finishing him off with a surprise hooligan as he was getting up), that makes me feel really good considering that guy is one hell of a bad ass superplayer.
Kuroppi tells me that Jason Cole is playing Cammy and doing some cool sh!t with the hooligan also, like hooligan from close range, cancel it once Cammy is on the other side of the opponent, then throw out a super. Surprise!
It’s good to see all these good Cammys popping up (Cole, Syxx, Keits, et al.), now that her moves can be done with more than a 50% average success rate. I’m looking forward to the day when I get my arse handed to me by a HDR Cammy pro, then complain that she is overpowered and cheap.
Look how much these guys are using the hooligan. That’s about as often as I use it, more or less (depending on the identity of my opponent and the character that he’s using). EDIT: Actually, F it, I use it more than that.
It’s a surprise attack that can’t be blocked. It was invented to make turtles respect Cammy more than the 0% that they did in SSF2. Why wouldn’t you abuse it?
Put the fear into the other guy. See how the expert Chun player backs himself into a corner multiple times, and jumps around throwing out random aerial short and RH kicks. (DANCE, b!tch.) See how Cammy trains Chun to reflexively expect a hooligan attack, then pause or uppercut or go for the fierce->drill combo instead. Witness how the final blow is delivered at 07:23.
i am sad i didn’t get the rest of the matches… over all it was a great matchup (even though I ended up losing). I’m not afraid to attack at all but I just need to maybe pick my shots better. Also I’m not afraid of getting hit by a fireball but I gotta be careful because of the dizzy damage I think hehe
Anyway I’m gonna read this thru several times and absorb it a bit and try to maybe change up my game a tad because right now I’m doing ok, there are some matches I’m not too familiar because of the limited number of players I know, not to mention not getting invites into matches on psn sucks right now and I’m playing different characters against the numbskulls in ranked for the most part… unless I get mad and go crawling back to cammy lol.
Another thing, I noticed that some cammy players go for crossup short into standing fierce, roundhouse cannon drill… i like the one with crouching strong, crouching forward, roundhouse cannon drill (or forward cannon drill against “fat” characters)… is the other one done in the japanese videos because they just don’t want to mess up or do u think u land in a better position after it lands??? I do the 4 hit instead of the 3 hit one because if you miss time the combo and end up doing the roundhouse cannon drill … and its blocked it seems like it would be a bad situation to be in… unless these dudes are hit confirming the crossup LK.
Also are there any different crossup moves that she has? Because some times I’ll go for the crossup LK on shotos and they only need to move up a little bit and I get thrown… and if there isn’t another good crossup move, is there anything to do to try to counter that tactic? Do I have time to land and trust kick before they can throw me? Because I don’t think landing and being able to outthrown them is a consistant option.
Syxx is right about Cammy’s crappy ass dizzy tolerance. So many times, I get dizzy from 2 random hits and it just pissed me off when it happens. The 2 random hits didn’t even have to be combos. IMHO, Cammy is the most easily dizzied char in HD Remix.
TY