I came across this during Canada Cup 2012 in the International 5 v 5. I don’t understand how this is a frame trap, I was wondering if maybe the commentator made an error? If not, could someone please lay it out for me, thanks.
I thought a frame trap was basically when you do a block string and between two of the moves, you leave a small gap so that they can mash out a move, but not big enough so that the move can become ‘active’. Thing is though, in this instance, I can’t see Mago do a string, he just does one move, RJ as far as I can see - how is that a frame trap?
Here’s the video:
[media=youtube]Up18alulAzw[/media]
The frame trap occurs roundabout 8:21 (I think), after the aerial counterhit.
It’s not a frame trap in that sense. It can be seen as a frame trap as Mago delayed the rising jaguar to catch the startup (or even active frames, as RJ has invincibility) of a normal by Vega
Correct, correct. What you’ve described is indeed is a frame trap, and that specific description accounts for 99% of the frame traps you see in SF4.
The key to a frame trap is that your opponent was previously unable to act for whatever reason (usually because of blockstun) and then, once he is able to act again, you give him a wink of time to do so and beat whatever he sticks out (usually with a counter-hit attempt by using a normal of your own). “Just enough rope to hang himself,” is the expression people usually use for this.
This case is a frame trap because Vega had just landed (note that he was unable to act as he fell) and Adon let him have a few frames to act again.
In terms of definition here, it doesn’t even matter that Adon’s uppercut wasn’t a counter-hit. (As you can clearly see in the video, Adon’s uppercut’s invincibility frames ate right through Vega’s normal, even though Vega’s normal had already reached its active frames, i.e. finished starting up.) The important part is simply that Adon’s move won.
Just to further clarity…
If Adon had timed a (non-juggling) attack so that it was already active as Vega landed, that would be a meaty. Usually we talk about meaty attacks in terms of wakeup/okizeme, but this counts too.
If Adon had timed an attack so that it became active on the first frame that Vega could act again, this isn’t anything special, it’s just continued pressure. That specific timing is actually tactically suboptimal here: it’s pointless because it offers nothing that the meaty or the frame trap won’t do better.
Here’s another unusual frame trap that you’ll occaaasionally see: the attacker will 1) knock down his opponent, 2) bait his opponent into doing a reversal uppercut on wakeup, and then 3) start an uppercut of his own during his opponent’s uppercut’s startup frames. The attacker’s uppercut will be invincible when his opponent’s uppercut becomes active, and defender’s uppercut runs out of invincibility frames first so the attacker’s uppercut beats it (and the defender gets knocked down again). Under normal circumstances, this is a very reckless/cocky play because it requires a bold read, is needlessly risky, and looks really looks flashy. There are usually easier and more damaging ways to punish a baited reversal so its utility comes down to psychological warfare at best: I’m in your head, I’m feelin’ myself, I’m stylin’ on you. You know, one of those it-was-hype-because-it-was-a-bad-choice type of moves. Howevvvver, if the attacker is trying to finish off his opponent with chip damage from the uppercut (i.e., it doesn’t matter if the opponent blocks), this is actually the best way for him to time it.
Remember that frame traps are short, calculated delays. You ARE making a tiny (built-in) guess, but math has got your back on this one.
Another term you may have heard is “counter-hit setup”: this is an extremely vague tactic where you use an (arbitrarily) longer pause during a tense (neutral) moment, try and suss out the opponent’s rhythm, and then pre-emptively stuff them when they (finally) actually hit a button. This is a pure guess, but you can pick a lower- or a higher-risk move, and if you haven’t been fishing for it all match then it makes you look really really really psychic if/when it works.
The line between frame trap and counter-hit setup is a pretty blurry one so the terms are sometimes used interchangeably, and I’m not going to say that one way is right or the other is wrong because everyone has opinions and blah blah blah and knowing your terminology is not as important as shut up and play the damn game