Yes. I was probably trying to punish his normals, but ended up being late on some. Also, I have an awful habit of thinking SA will Anti-Air if it’s performed when the opponent is close to landing and the angles are good.
Yes, this is because I thought this was a bad button against Gief.
I checked the MU thread yesterday and saw this. I played a Gief last night and it was very effective.
Will do
Why M Arrow? To my novice eyes, it seems that H and M Arrows leave you in very similar positions.
I didn’t know he was going to mash. I guess I should’ve by the 2nd game, but I’m not good at noticing meter.
I know, I didn’t know how else to get in.
How do you know this? I’ve rewatched the videos and I only saw him SPD once after I attacked him (2nd video, :45 seconds)
Makes sense. I was doing SAs bc I wanted to be sure I was far away enough from his normal and I wasn’t aware the damage was so low.
Yeah, I was very unfamiliar with this MU. I never play any Gief’s so I was being too cautious of his ranges.
Lack of MU knowledge, Cammy knowledge, and general SFV knowledge. Didn’t know his SPD was so slow compared to SF4 (I thought it was a viable wake up option for him in SFV), didn’t know Cammy’s set ups, and I use the same tactic whether my opponent quick rises, back rises, or normal rises. I will practice these set ups and different rises in training.
4a) Jumping in from afar probably isn’t a good idea against anyone, correct?
4b) I noticed that last night. I was in training mode against Fang and I had a really hard time doing my cross up combo because of his height and slenderness.
4c) Can you elaborate on late tech? I thought I knew what it was, but I thought it was only after a blockstring so I don’t know what you mean when you say ‘after a dash’.
I’ll work on that in training. I wasn’t quite sure of it’s range or the frame data on block.
I’m still in the baby pool with dive kicks so I don’t use them. I can IA EXCS in training about 20% of the time and I still haven’t performed a non-EX IACS. Working on it.
Hi @SunTzu81, Thanks for the tips u provide lol for dealing with gief, i get blow up sumtimes by gief, especially gud ones, for the gief VT, Is it really -3 on block?becoz sumtime when i try to jab, his ex SPD may catch me,i don’t know,maybe im slow to react to it or due to lag spikes,haha, i agree that dealing with him is annoying and sumtime is quite scary, u know, cammy doesn’t have very long HP to deal with alot of dmg
“4c) Can you elaborate on late tech? I thought I knew what it was, but I thought it was only after a blockstring so I don’t know what you mean when you say ‘after a dash’.”
A late grab tech is when you grab a few frames late to try and tech their grab or block their hit. You can’t be grabbed in block stun so you are trying to cover both options with this tactic. So if someone dashes forward and tries to grab you or hit you, you have a certain window to block the hit and tech the grab (I believe it’s 11 frames to tech a grab). Hitting grab at the end of these frames is considered late teching as it covers you if they hit a button or if they grab. If you didn’t hit grab late you would end up getting hit by the opponents hit, so this is why you have to delay the tech a little bit.
Here is the scenario I’m sure you’ll see a lot or are about to see it a lot in silver or higher ranks. Ken dashes or v-skills forward really fast and grabs you. It seems so fast that you don’t think you can react to it. Over time you start to react to the start of his dash and hit grab to try and tech his grab attempts, but then instead of grabbing ken starts to dash forward and then jab which counter hits your grab and gets a free combo. So what you have to do to deal with both of these situations is to block like normal, wait for the dash and once you see it ever so slightly delay your grab tech. If he does jab you’ll block, if he grabs you’ll tech late. You can tell if it’s a late tech as late techs separate you farther after the break. The easiest way I think you can train your mind to catch it is to look for where you expect to see their move getting blocked. If you don’t see a block after the dash that is when you hit the grab. If you do see the block still hit grab to keep the timing. The key to teching grabs is to match the timing of their buttons presses near the end of their attack. I’ll make a video on this later as it’s hard to explain over text as we are literally dealing with like 5 frames which is a blink of an eye practically.
Yeah I use to 10-0 Giefs. Now its like 7-3, 6-4. They are getting smarter. It’s -3. I didn’t believe it at first either, but it is -3 if he stops the spin cycle before it pushes you back out. Try training mode to get the timing on when you can hit him. An EX SPD would have an 8 (3+5) frame start up at the point, so I’d say you are reacting slowly. If you watch the Gatyokun vs Itazan video above you’ll get an idea of what is good to do and not good to do in that match.
Oyasu has amazing spacing and reactions. Like at 1:08 that mk whiff punish with cr hp is insane. I don’t think that is something you can react too though. You have to know the spacing, timing, and tendency of the other player to land that. For example if Ryu had sweeped instead Oyasu would have been hit. I feel like this movement is necessary for Cammy to be played at a high level, but it’s really hard to play like this against lower ranked people. They’ll do dumb stuff like sweep in that situation even though it would be unsafe to do so. For this reason I’ve been having to play her with a sort of check list against opponents to see how good they are before I can decide how to play her. It goes something like this:
On their first wake up. Do meaty into frame trap and see what they do.
Response:
Invincible Reversal. Ok they are scrubs play cautiously. (Most likely bronze to silver rank)
Counter hit. Ok they like to mash jab. Do more meatys and frame traps. (Most likely silver to gold rank)
Block. Ok they aren’t dumb. Stop string early and attempt to grab. If they tech grab, commence shimmy setups (Most likely gold+)
Now once I’ve done this test that will determine how I will play against this opponent. If they are scrubs I’ll play more cautious and just let them hang themselves as you will tend to get caught with stupid stuff like random DPs or sweeps if you try doing frame traps or shimmy setups. If they are mid tier you can usually apply more pressure and catch them with more grabs, but shimmy setups still tend to be unsafe or ineffective. At higher levels this is where the game gets fun for me as you literally have to play against someones tendencies. Everyone is so good at blocking and teching at this level that you literally have to force your opponent to do something based upon their own desire to want to do it. This is where shimmys really start to shine and where Cammy looks godlike. It’s just unfortunate most of us don’t get the opportunity to play her at this level currently.
P.S. Later on in the games, I think, shows Cammy’s real weakness. It’s her inability to just let people get away from you. She wants to be the aggressor and always wants to go in, but when the opponent is walking back it’s so easy to walk into things. The tendency is to dive kick in, but it becomes very readable as well as easy to back away from. In these situations you have to keep your cool, eat the chip, and let them walk themselves into the corner. The dash back is usually coming near the end so be ready, but once there you can return to bullying them and then wait for them to try and get out. I think Osayu just got impatient rather than just letting Daigo walk all the way into the corner. So many times he went for an easy to read dive kick or even a hooligan grab which is just to Ryu’s benefit rather than letting Daigo come to him.
Yeah he got read pretty bad. I bet if you turned on inputs you’d see Zangief late teching the whole time then immediately going to jab during all of those strings. It makes it impossible to shimmy on him literally shutting down anything Cammy can do, so that is why he started varying the timings with the random st lk and jabs even though they weren’t tight strings. The thing to take away from this is don’t jump/dive kick in on gief unless it’s EX and play it safe. If a gief is playing like him I wouldn’t even try using st mk as you can get caught to easy and pushed in on if you whiff. I’d be waiting for that hp so I could punish and get a knockdown. This match up is becoming harder and harder as people are getting to know all of Cammy’s tendencies and gief’s jab seems to beat everything she has that is safe at poke ranges. On top of that having to force them to make numerous mistakes is what makes it even worse as the damage we get from afar is dismal. Now that I think of it, forcing yourself into grab bait situations against Gief so you can neutral jump punish might not be a bad idea. Just so you have some opportunities to land big damage because you know they want to get that SPD off when you’re close. “Oh you want to hug cammy do you gief? No problem come on over. NOPE!” Neutral jump - PUNISH!
I can’t find the other ones, he had a bounch of matches with a Zangief from japan,YB_ or something like this.
The matches were pretty interesting and I figured out what the eaxact problem was.
First of all he lost in one match 80% just from beeing anti-aired over and over again.
Shimmys didn’t work against him at all, Osayu didn’t went for a single frametrap during the match. he basicly put Gief always into the same situation and always choose the same trick.
The rounds were he stayed on the ground and played more solid where the ones Gief saw no land. He won these rounds pretty high.
btw I counted the SPD’s during the 3-4 videos. Gief SPD 3x and once 2x in a row,other than that he didn’t use a single SPD.
It’s interesting, a lot of matches Cammy lose against Gief went the same route. Maybe people tend to play the MU wrong,might just be me, but thats how I see it.
Starts at 1h45 in case link doesn’t work. There are other matches from Cobelcog in this video but I’m lazy. Just follow the timestamps in the description, though.
Can anyone explain why the st.mp after the vtrigger divekick in 1:49:13 didn’t link?
Hit too high most likely but I think the fireball hit box moving also changed the initial dive kick hit timing. If it hits too high you will finish v-trigger earlier thereby having less advantage once you land on the ground. This tends to happen more on taller characters like Zangief, Birdie, Fang but not usually on Chun Li though so that is why I’m thinking the animation for Chun’s fireball moved her hitbox to strike earlier than normal.
Doing it at the peak of the jump from further ranges or going through the head and neck only (maybe not on a shorter character like Cammy) will give you +4. I don’t think you’ll even get +5 outta it tbh
