Cammy(need help)

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
21

What about Cammy’s oki game? Vs. characters with AA’s and characters without?

I usually like to use close standing strong (if I’m not expecting an AA reversal) into throw attempt, or into a block string into holigan throw. Either that, or jumping short (cross up) into dizzy combo if the jumping short connects.

For some reason, I always feel that close standing strong should’nt be so good, but there have been many times when it’s stuffed reversals from Honda, Blanka, Claw, Dictator. Which makes me think twice about how beefy it really is. But is there any other good options for Cammy’s oki besides the ones I’ve listed?

22

i had the same problem in alpha 3. you have to hold forward and back + kick. you actually have alot of room to press K, prolly not as much as vega dive3 tho

23

Sorry for the totally basic question, but I’ve been wondering what the exact motion for the roll is, because I’ve seen it written multiple ways, and I can’t currently test it myself.

Facing right, is this the minimum you have to do?
:db: :d: :df: :r: :uf: :p:

I know a lot of players do an entire half-circle forward (starting from straight back) to up-forward, but that’s just to make the move easier to do in practice for some people and not strictly necessary, right?

Edit: Finally got a hold of Kawaks and yeah, you only have to start from down-back.

24

Tick-throw Setups

I know Cammy doesn’t have amazing tick-throw setups, but they could be a useful part of her mixup, right? My thoughts:

In ground poke games, against characters who don’t have a punish for Cannon Spike, c.short -> Cannon Spike is a safe option. So, after training the opponent to think that you’ll simply Cannon Spike after a landed c.short, a walk-up grab could be a decent setup.

Also, the blocked cross-up string could have its uses, aye?

j.short (cross-up), c.strong, c.forward is a versatile poke-string on block. After the c.forward, a Hooligan Throw is tough to deal with on reaction without prior anticipation. To further mess with your opponent’s head, do a tick-throw next time. It would look something like this:

j.short(cross-up), c.strong, walk up and throw.

The opponent would (hopefully) be waiting for the c.forward before thinking to deal with Hooligan, so I believe this would give Cammy the element of surprise.

I don’t have my arcade stick or my console to test this at the moment, but I would appreciate feedback on any of the strategies mentioned above.

Also, my own question: On which characters is a blocked Cannon Spike safe from? I know all three versions have the same recovery, so that’s not a variable.

25

As far as I know (which is very little), it sounds good. My main question would be, is it really necessary when playing ground pokes? I find that if I’m in range to do a c.short while playing footsies that I basically could have thrown anyway. Is it more useful in other scenarios, and if so, which? I’d personally be too afraid to try c.short as the opponent stands up for fear of accidentally getting the range wrong and getting reversal thrown right as they stand up or losing to some other reversal. I guess it’s an option after jumping in, too?

I’ve seen the excellent Sawada do [media=youtube]8aDf-rM5z9o[/media] (00:09), but it seems that’s an entirely different thing, used not as a tick throw setup but just as more of a “get away from me and block or this is going to hurt” type setup.

Yeah, that sounds awesome to me, good stuff. And actually you could also hit-confirm a cross-up j.short, c.strong, c. forward, RH Cannon Drill for 4 hits + 50% damage + good dizzy potential. I know it works against characters like Blanka and Guile, but not sure about Ryu, because I can’t seem to test it on him – I find Ryu virtually impossible to cross-up with Cammy’s j.short and still keep a combo going. Is it just me?

I know Milo said earlier he tends to cross-up with j.short, s.fierce or s.short, Cannon Spike and I’m wondering about the pluses & minuses of doing that one instead. Maybe Milo’s is good in that it guarantees chip damage as long as the opponent can’t punish a blocked Cannon Spike. I think that list might include some unusual exceptions, like Blanka not being able to Ball you afterwards because he (probably) lost his horizontal charge in the cross-up.

I’m sure good players know this by heart, but sadly, I don’t know either, and I’m not in a position to test it, so we’ll have to reinvent the wheel for now.

Safe, as far as I know:
Guile
Ken
Ryu
T.Hawk
Zangief

Potentially unsafe, as far as I know:
Blanka (if charged, fierce Ball can hit you)
Dhalsim (standing RH, probably other stuff too)
Dictator (if charged, RH scissor kicks)

26

Maybe I’m dragging this thread on, with 3 out of the last 4 posts, but I figured this would be a good place to list what the differences are for Old Cammy, since there’s always a lot of confusion over that. The ones I’m aware of are:

[list]
[]Old Cammy can’t use a super or tech throws (obviously).
[]Old Cammy can’t do a Hooligan Roll. --jchensor (Can’t believe I forgot this one)
[]Old Cammy’s Spin Knuckles all can go through projectiles instead of just the jab one.
[]Old Cammy’s Spin Knuckles don’t travel as far. The Jab one goes much shorter than its New counterpart, the Strong goes somewhat shorter, and the Fierce goes slightly shorter.
[]Old Cammy can’t buffer special moves off a c.strong, c.forward, or s.close forward. Updated, complete list
[]Old Cammy’s j.short doesn’t cross up. :sad:
[/list]
I’m sure there are lots more, so please share if you know of others.

27

Keep it comin’!

You’re not dragging anything on, this is all truly great information. By the way, thanks for your thorough response to my post, it was reassuring to see that my strategies weren’t completely borked.

Cammy simply isn’t a popular choice in the ST world, so there is (expectedly) less action in this sort of thread.

How long have you been playing Super Turbo, by the way? I am just picking it up myself, so all of your input is appreciated.

28

Well, I’ve messed around with the SF2 series on and off since I was a kid playing World Warrior at stores and arcades, but that doesn’t really count for anything, since not only was the competition completely terrible, but ST is completely different game. I’ve only been playing Super Turbo for a very short time, and there’s a very good chance you’re already better than me, as I’m quite bad. That’s not false modesty either. :bgrin: So please hold a healthy skepticism about anything I say.

Random Cammy odds and ends:

1.) If my test data isn’t messed up (and there’s a good chance it is), Cammy has 6 input frames to punish a Blanka Ball with the RH Cannon Drill if she blocks it standing up. If she blocks it crouching, she has less. This is assuming a “normal” Blanka Ball hit and not some unusual situation like him doing it really meaty as you’re standing up, resulting in an unusually deep hit and leaving him closer than normal.

I remember reading about the RH Cannon Drill counter and thought it sounded easy until I actually tried it. Half the time he’s bounced off me and is safely landing before I even realize what’s happened; another quarter of the time, I’m responding too late with the Drill, which he ends up simply blocking as I sail right into his stomach, resulting in a face munch, haha. I’ve even resorted at times to just spamming c.jabs, but even those can get me in trouble if he counters with c.RH or something. Hey, I told you I was bad! :looney:

2.) Am I crazy, or is c.fierce a surprisingly good anti-air against medium-height jumpers like Ryu, Ken, and Guile? It can trade or often wins outright for me. Of course the Thrust Kick can also be used for that purpose, but if you have slow reflexes like me, sometimes it’s easier just to bash c.fierce than spend the extra split-second doing the joystick motion. Right now I’m probably using it more often than the Thrust Kick for anti-air.

The weird thing is, I’ve almost never seen the c.fierce in videos and I can’t recall it being mentioned either. That almost makes me worry that there might be something wrong with it, heh, but so far it seems to be holding up alright for me.

29

Hmm, haven’t been checking the SRK boards in forever now. Guess I can add in what I can with Cammy for the past few questions.

First of all, I will guarantee that 99% of the time, you will be using the Fierce Hooligan. There is almost never a reason not to if your intention is to grab someone. The Jab one can be used from a screen away to get over Fireballs. But if you are planning on grabbing someone, Fierce Hooligan will be what you use 99% of the time. There is ONE fun trick, and that’s meaty Crouch Strong into Strong Holligan. This puts Cammy BEHIND the opponent and she can still grab them. If they attack, they punch the wrong direction. It’s a fun “WTF?!?” to do on people, but to be honest: if they didn’t react in time to being thrown on that one, most likely they won’t react to the Fierce one in time either.

But again I emphasize: don’t rely on this move. The last thing you want to do is train people on how to react to it. Play O.G. Cammy from time to time and see if you can learn to win without it. It’ll only make the Hooligan Roll even THAT MUCH TOUGHER to deal with if you can play tough without it. It’s a complimentary move. It should not be the basis of your attack. It’s to be used when you’ve gotten them too worried about all the other evil shit Cammy can do.

Also, for the characters she is safe against after a block DP, it’s tough. It’s really not particularly cut and dry. There are some real obvious ones: Zangief, T.hawk, Guile… they can’t do shit to Cammy once they block a Cannon Spike. But other characters, it is not as clear cut. Take Ryu for instance. Ryu can punish only with his Super Fireball. So if he has it, don’t do it. Same for Chun. She can punish you with her Super, though she requires better timing (too early and it Juggles for no damage, too late and you block it).

Plus, there IS a distance factor. If you do a meaty Cannon Spike too close to the opponent, you can be punished. Like if you walk RIGHT UP to Zangief and do the cannon Spike as he gets up, I beleive he can walk up and sweep you. So if you ever decide to pester Zangief with Meaty Cannon Spikes (which is fun to do… :-p), make sure you keep a small space between the two of you. That guarantees he cannot punish you afterwards.

And I’ll have to chime in on tick games: Cammy’s tick games are some of the best in the game. My strategy with Cammy, in general, has shifted. Basically, the entire goal of the round is to figure out a way to knock the opponent over. Once. That’s all I need. And once you do, the goal shifts to never letting them ever get up ever again. Ever. If they do, revert to goal #1. But once they are down, her Meaty game is buff. Her Throws are hella good (because her Meaties are really buff), her Cannon Spike is good, Cannon Drill (which takes a minute to learn to use, but a lifetime to master) is good, and Holligan Roll is good. Between all of those, it’s actually not hard to keep them on the ground two to three times in a row. And with how much damage she does, that’s about 45-70% of their life right there.

I’ll answer more stuff later if anything new crops up.

30

Raisin:

Yes, you need some hella good timing to punish Blanka’s Fierce Blanka Ball. If you don’t do a near Reversal with the Roundhouse Cannon Drill, you can forget about punishing it. So whenever you try it, make sure you tap Roundhouse many times as fast as you can (get out those Track N’ Field fingers) to get the most likely chance you’ll get it as close to a Reversal as possible.

And Crouch Fierce IS a good anti-air. There are some matches where I use it intentionally because it’s actually better than the Cannon Spike. How can that be? Take Balrog for instance. If Balrog jumps at you, he can hit Fierce/Roundhouse at the height of his jump, almost, and you are forced to block it because it hits so low and his jump is so low. It’s not easy to hit with a Cannon Spike. But if you remain Crouching, his punch will miss. So it’s easier to stay crouching and Crouch Fierce him (and since his jump is so low, he has very little chance of making it over/past the Fierce). So I use it a lot against Balrog. It works well on other characters as well. You will trade, obviously, from time to time or get beat, which won’t happen to the Cannon Spike. But believe me, Raisin… my reaction time is probably worse than yours, so I can understand the temptation to use Crouch Fierce instead. :slight_smile:

31

Thanks very much, James, for the awesome info. :tup: The time and effort invested is very much appreciated, and I’ll try to take your tips to heart, especially the ones about pressuring downed opponents, since that’s a major weakness in my game right now. OT – Congrats on getting your Wii! The story in your blog is great.

Anyone got any tips on fighting Dhalsim? Some people seem to have an optimistic view of this matchup (“optimistic” as in “Cammy does not necessarily get rocked”), and I’d be ecstatic if I thought I knew of a way to get a roughly even game against him. I did a bunch of digging but only came up with the account of Gian praising Chen’s footsies and spacing and something about Cammy’s j.strong beating a lot of Dhalsim’s libs (presumably, a reference to her being able to jump in).

If anyone has any details or just ideas, I’d like to hear them. It doesn’t have to be a work of art; even 2 or 3 sentences will be appreciated.

32

[media=youtube]ezjdqy-V4WY"[/media] has Nakamura (Cammy) vs. KKY (Dhalsim).

33

I firmly believe Cammy wins the fight against Dhalsim. Not by a whole lot (I used to think she dominated it, but, like most matches, if Dhalsim is smart, he can hold his own against Cammy). Cammy has a LOT of Tools ready to fight Dhalsim. The number one tool is Jumping Straight up Strong. Jumping straight up over Fireballs becomes a non-issue for Cammy because of this move. It’ll beat/trade with anything Dhalsim does. Dhalsim can try to hit you before you do it, but you just have to be wary of those if you see Dhalsim coming up close for a Stand Forward.

Also, jumping AT Dhalsim becomes easier thanks to Strong. He cannot slide, Crouch Fierce, Stand Forward, etc. you because of that move like he can against so many other characters.

Oh, and if Dhalsim doesn’t block Low on a wake-up, Crouch Strong hit him low. :slight_smile: Link into Stand Fierce into Roundhouse Cannon Drill = Touch of Death. 90% of the time he’s dizzy after that, and anything, afterwards, will kill him. But if Dhalsim learns to block low a lot, start mixing it up. But until he does, there is almost never any reason to not go for the Meaty Low Strong.

Roundhouse Cannon Drill from 90% screen away can get under a lot of kick, and trade with Fierces and such, putting you at the advantage (you land on your feet, he doesn’t). If he throws lots of Yoga Fires, though, this isn’t a good tactic. Use this when he gets tentative throwing fireballs. 'Cause when he throws one, and you are 80% screen away or so, jumping over it with Strong is really good. So if he starts throwing less Fireballs, it opens up the Cannon Drill.

And lastly, the biggest advantage she has: Capcom knew she sucked, so they made her way too buff. :slight_smile: The damage difference between Cammy and Dhalsim is ridiculous.

For the record, Gian DID beat my Cammy. I actually beat his Ryu first, then he switched to Dhalsim and I believed I had that match in the bag. But he surprised me with a lot of things I didn’t know about before, so he actually beat me with his Dhalsim. I was sad, but am glad enough to hear him praise my Cammy. :slight_smile:

34

BoggleMinds: Good stuff.

That last round vs. KKY’s Dhalsim in that clip is a perfect example of “Knock them down, never let them get up again.” She was behind the whole Round and hit him with one Cannon Spike. And then, four knock-downs later, he was dead.

The 2nd Round vs. Dhalsim, I’m not sure what happened, but he shut down and decided to walk into 90% of his attacks. Gotta risk a Cannon Drill or Cannon Spike or a Jump Strong. Cammy fights Dhalsim by instilling fear into him. If he’s not scared, you are not doing your job. I was also curious to see him only use Jump Roundhouse when he jumped over. I can understand using it (Dhalsim’s Back + Down + Roundhouse beats Jumping Strong, at far distances), but until Sim proves he knows that, I would stick to Strong, I guess.

I wasn’t a fan of the Cammy style vs. Ryu (she had like 50 opportunities to kill Ryu on the last round that she didn’t take advantage of…), but he had some really neat tricks that I’m gonna have to bite now. lol Meaty Jump Jab/Short into regular throw is tight. Hella ghetto, but when mixed with Jump Jab/Short into Stand Fierce into Hooligan, that’s a guessing games to handle since it all happens so fast.

Also, that guy’s ability to Hooligan from the middle of nowhere is awesome. I even admit I have trouble with that and I don’t rely on it much 'cause I have such a hard time with it. I really should learn it.

35

Ton of good Dhalsim stuff here to chew on, thanks! I better get practicing with all of those tricks.

What looks especially weird to me in that video is Cammy using her s.far fierce to counter Dhalsim’s limbs; I’d never seen that before. At 4:01 she beats his s.far RH with it, and it wins again vs. his s.far strong at 5:26. If it’s a helpful way to avoid getting zoned, then so much the better.

36

If I am in close and get a cShort cShort cShort to land, can that be comboed into anything? Or am I better off just doing the cStrong stuff? I like to mix it up, but hate having to end the rapid shorts by themselves.

Also, is the non close stand fierce comboable? I tested and determined it’s not, but wanted to verify and make sure I wasnt just screwing it up.

And lastly… Mr. Chen, if you wouldn’t mind, could you give an example of how your “dont let them get up ever” strategy might look? Obviously there are tons of ways to re-knock someone down, but assuming right away you land a sweep or DP or something, could you just give an example of how the rest of the round could go if they guess wrong on each mixup? I’m intrigued by the idea… just curious what it might look like when you execute it successfully.

Thanks!

37

Crouch Short rapid fire leads to nothing. Absolutely worthless, IMO. meaty Crouch Short should really never be an option. It doesn’t get you anywhere.

Stand Fierce from afar IS Comboable, but only if it hits with the elbow. If she hits when her arm is fully extended, it can no longer be Buffered. If it hits with the Elbow portion, a Roundhouse Cannon Drill is guaranteed to Combo.

Okay, so let’s say you are playing a Ryu… you are poking and what not, walking into hella fireballs, being zoned. And then he tries a Meaty on you and you wake up Cannon Spike him. All right, now what? Walk up to him, do a Meaty Crouch Strong, which he blocks, whiff a Stand Short afterwards and then Punch Throw (I swear Cammy doesn’t need to walk at all… she just goes from whiffed Short into Throw). So next time he gets up, you do Meaty Close-up Stand Strong so that you connect with the end of the punch, then take half a step and Cannon Spike. He tried to throw you 'cause you threw him the last time and he thinks you’re going for Throw wins and eats the Cannon Spike. Then you walk up, go back to Meaty Crouch Strong, whiff a Stand Jab which gets him to react (he remembers the whiffed Stand Short), then immediately do Crouch Forward (which hit him 'cause he stood up and now he’s hit so he goes all defensive) and buffer that into Hooligan Throw. Then you walk up and get Reversal DP’ed on your next Meaty attempt. So back to square one, but at this point, at least you’ve just drained 80% of his life. :slight_smile:

Keep in mind that Reversal DP’s will own you up. if your opponent is good at them, when you get hit by it, simply applaud him for his skill in your head and move on. Keep it in mind and play distance wake-up games. Stay out of the DP range and whiff Jabs as he is getting up. Right when he gets up, wait a second then do tip of Crouch Forward into Short Cannon Drill (which won’t combo… just a decent poke sequence for Block Damage and it keeps you in offensive stance), or a threatening looking whiffed Stand Strong into an empty Hooligan Throw attempt. Etc. etc.

Watch that video that was linked up there if you haven’t already. The Cammy player does this exactly on the last round. It’s a perfect example.

38

Perfect! Thats EXACTLY what I was looking for! So then would this statment be correct: the 3 main meaty attacks to go for are standing, crouching, and jumping strong?

I have to assume jump strong is one of her best attacks on an opponent’s wakeup. Seems to beat a LOT of stuff and has such a nice angle. Just want to make sure because you dont mention it in your last few posts. or should I just go for standing and crouching strongs only? I also saw Nakamura use jump straight up short. Is that as quality a tick as Bison’s jump straight up short(which seems to all but guarantee a throw if timed right)?

Thanks again, that was money

39

My main Meaty Attacks are Crouching Strong, Standing Close-up Strong, and close Stand Fierce (Meaty Stand Fierce canceled into Hooligan Throw is hella fast, and also links into Crouch Forward, giving Cammy some more options). I’ve never used Jump attacks as a Meaty attack before. Mike Creque (awesome Cammy player as well) actually uses the cross-up Short, which is REALLY good. I’ve just never added it to my game. And that Japanese player seems to use Jumping Jab and Short as Meaty Jump attacks, allowing for easier tick Throws afterwards. I can’t really comment much on the Jumping Meaties, 'cause I’ve never used those (the stuff Nakamura was doing was new to me as well), but I’m definitely gonna start trying to use it and see how it pans out. :slight_smile:

Definitely good to keep a variety going, though. I used to use the same Meaty 100% of the time (Crouch Strong, 'cause Crouch Strong into Crouch Forward into Roundhouse Cannon Drill = dead for most opponents), but once they see it too much, it’s too easy for them to remain calm. Gotta keep them guessing.

40

Wow. I’m pretty surprised at that. While obviously you are a far superior player to me, I’m actually going to make a recomendation to you to try the jumping stong on the opponent’s wakeup. It beats out a LOT of stuff when timed right and flows really naturally to the crouching strong.

As for the crossup short, I always seem to get thrown when I land, but that’s probably poor timing on my part. You want to hit that as late as possible I’m assuming? Seems like jump strong works a lot easier, but of course crossing up is always a plus :slight_smile: