his cr.lp is actually the most annoying thing ever. gief is free as all hell as soon as you get him knocked down, but good god the neutral is annoying if the gief is willing to play the patient game and do nothing but cr.lp/st.lp. i tried whiff punishing with st.mp, but i would often get b+mp by mistake, or i’d get hit by a CC st.hk from gief as the gief started adapting.
i found cr.mp to be better suited for me, since you can’t get hit by gief’s st.hk (sounds familiar), and gief’s hurtbox grows downwards a bit as he recovering from cr.lp, making cr.mp hit him at just the right spot. that said, st.mp really is the more optimal button though, since making gief mix in st.hk opens him up to getting whiff punished by a spiral arrow. i just need to work on my execution and not get b+mp by mistake.
st hk beats gief free. All you have to do is stand at max st hk range and poke with it. If they hit a button it counter hits, if they walk forward it hits them in the face. If they jump and hit a button it counter hits for a follow up DP. I have hilarious matches of me sitting at that perfect distance and adjusting my distance as the gief is adjusting his and throwing out st hk catching a gief on everything he did. It literally beat every button he pressed. After that I was like damn Gief really is the worst in the game right now.
IMO st hp (especially in neutral), works better here then st mp due to range and trade priority. You really shouldn’t be in his jab range unless it was you knocking him down with a follow up setup.
cool, i actually never even thought of abusing st.hk. makes a lot of sense the way you put it though. i definitely have to rethink the way i go about this match up, i’m so used to just getting in for free and playing my game as soon as he’s knocked down that i never really bothered to learn the neutral game vs gief.
i tried using st hp to whiff punish, but since it steps cammy forward so much more than st mp, i wasn’t able to make good use of it. that alongside its longer recovery made me opt against using it too much. there’s almost a 100% certainty i was getting frustrated and started playing sloppy though.
i’ll definitely give st.hk a try next time i play a set with my local gief. cool strat.
Yeah against grapplers Cammys game plan sort of changes to keeping them out rather than rushing them down like we are used to with the rest of the cast.
P.S. You can whiff punish their st HP charge with Cammys st Hp really easy. Just stand right at it’s range let them wind up, walk back as it’s coming in standing just outside of block range then hit st mp xx DP or SA. It’s an easy in and knockdown from far range.
It does beat it, but you can punish the sweep if you block it, so he is taking the bigger risk. Basically what I’m trying to say is at maximize st hk range you win this. Super up close you win this. In between that range giefs crouching jab is going to own you as it has faster start up than you’re comparable ranged tools and allows for easy SPD tick throws. You want to be dancing in and out of that st hk range trying to catch his charge punch with st hp buffered to SA or st hk to catch jump ins and pretty much anything else he does like the knee hammer from that range. Any time you get the knockdown rush in and use a meaty to keep him locked down. If he blocks everything try for a grab, neutral jump or back out to make him try to come to you again.
Sorry .et me clarify. St Hk is not used to beat his jab mashing. If he is in range to jab you then you are letting him get to close to you is what I mean. The idea is to use st hk to catch anything he does trying to get in, so you should try to stay out of his jab range and catch him with st hk or st hp when he tries to approach or poke. You will beat his jump ins, his forward knee, his charge punch with these buttons. It does require some movement and timing to hit it right. Once he is in jab range he tends to have the advantage unless you are point blank and have the advantage after a knockdown. So in this match up you want to be right outside st hk range poking or right on him in my opinion.
i truly had no ideas how to deal with annoying type zangrief which shuts down everything i do, if i try ex dive kick,i will get jab AA if i do it obvious, if i try st.mk, it will jab as well, if i too scared to press anything,it will dash and command grab or whatever, is getting very frustrating with this matchup, Any pro cammy that good dealing with giefs?T_T
If he beats everything with jab,you have to find out when he does them.
If he always uses them if you walk forward,find the spot and use st.mp or st.hp.
If he dashs forward use st.lk to stop him.
You do this trough the whole MU, just stay on the ground and play the footsies game.
Standard throw/frametrap mixups are better, than trying to shimmy.
Just play boring and remember yourself that he has to get in and you don’t have to.
Thanks @Cipher & @Necrotrophic for the tips provided, i guess i’m too impatient which got myself cornered and gg, walk into his game plans, should walk forward instead of holding back whole time(my bad habits deal with grapplers) and spam st.mk and cr.mk, which ended up got whiff punished if i don’t hit it right, i admitted that normal divekicks is too dangerous to play in this MU, and that gief player that i play usually v-reversal if i press anything on his wakeup, even i press light buttons,i can’t punish in time with throw, i can just block,how do u guys deal with it??
yeah i get it,but somehow when i try this in the lab,training mode,set gief guard to V-reversal, i press a jab and try to throw,it doesn’t work,i get v-reversal hit instead. For some characters yeah i manage to throw it but hit box for gief is weird that i can’t throw in time.
i test it again in lab,if u use jumping in normals, throw would work in time if u hit deep enough when the gief do the v-reversal animation, but on ground,it doesn’t work,i guess online players v-reversal is different from what i do in lab then hehe.
EX dive kick is the only thing we have that beats his cr jab, but the key is you have to aim low (below waist). His standing jab will knock you out from high but not low EX dive kick. His cr jab can but its hard for them to time that perfectly. You don’t ever want to jump in on Gief. He has great AA and his armor will blow up any attack you have. The only time you want to be jumping is when it’s a read on his command grab and you should be neutral jumping it. st mk should only be used from its tip range. You should be dancing in and out of his st hp range and poking with st hp or st hk during neutral while watching for jump ins. Jump ins should be beat by st hk for crush counters into DP, if not fast enough b+mp. For the most part you shouldn’t be holding down back against gief but rather walking in and out. Holding down back just allows him to dash in and grab you. If he is pressuring with walking forward a lot go ahead and sweep for a knock down, use cr mk only if he is close and walking forward as the jab beats it with it’s terrible hurt box and slow start up if you try to poke buffer SA with it from outside range. Once you get a knockdown you should meaty (st lk meaty to grab beats his v-reversal. If you are missing it you are hitting grab too late) then go to throw setups as they know they can’t beat anything you have up close and will just block low/tech. Varying the grab attempts (ie throw a grab at any time between these strings or don’t to keep them guessing st lk, cr lk, st/cr lp; st lk, cr mp; st mp, st hp; cr mp, cr lp, st hp; st lk, st hk) is important as EX SPD is grab invincible. They will start churning butter and wait for your grab if you are predictable so you will need to vary it up when you go for grabs or even throw in neutral jumps instead of grabs when they have meter (two ex grabs is basically GG for Cammy). When you come down from the jump if he didn’t SPD use mp for the lower hurt box to give him less of a chance to anti air. This match up becomes a massive guessing game when both players know each character well, but health makes it so he can guess wrong a few more times whereas Cammys moves allow her to get in easier than Gief so it’s a trade off. If he V-triggers and sucks you in be ready to jab TC if he stops short of pushing you out. If he pushes you out just let him suck you back in to waste it. Do not press a button while he has v-trigger as they are looking for the poke to suck you back in. I tend to just walk into it to get him to waste it. Last thing of note I do not recommend dping against him on your wake up. It’s just not worth the damage/stun if he blocks and I know a lot of them look for it as they know it’s a free round after one blocked DP.