Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

I quoted you directly.

And considering that you never retracted the statement.

As for “goal”, this is more based on what we see as the developers intentions with the characters which, seem to be alot about making her play like older incarnations of Cammy and not the divekick happy SFIV version, as well as our own experience trying her out in the beta. Sure, you can technically play her anyway you want, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t any value in optimizing her playstyle and criticizing those who aren’t doing so in a competitive environment.

Yes, you did quote me directly while making flawed assumptions on subtext I never ment that way. Quoting does in no way equal mindreading nor does it give you the monopol on truth. You can merely make an educated guess on what my opinion could be and it is up to me to confirm your comment or not.

There is no need to retract statements. Discussions are an organic process evolving from comment to comment. Building new knowledge is the ultimate goal of said process and not the beginning. That is why I don’t quite understand why you are so focused on “my opinion against your’s” and proving me wrong through meta discussions, which in no way contribute to the point of “how good/bad are Cammy’s divekicks”.

This part is where we disagree the most. Yes, of course we should strive to optimize playstyles. That is out of question. Nevertheless you are talking about how you think the developers want people to play Cammy. I am saying that it is completely irrelevant. In video games the developer defines the boundaries, but it is up to the player to do whatever possible to win within those restrictions. Therefore the best way to judge anything about SFV is to throw all past experiences over board and to assess things for what they are. In my opinion that is the only way to make objective statements.

I also don’t quite understand why you are saying “our own experience”. Are you more than one person? Is there a proven and established opinion on this matter? Are you speaking for the whole community? Or is it just to discredit my opinion coming from a new user as opposed to yourself?

In SFV Cammy’s divekicks are extremely unsafe. I don’t know much about what your playstyle is with Cammy but when I play my first way of thinking is that if it’s unsafe it’s not an option that can be relied upon.

In SF4 because of the fact that there isnt a quick rise mechanic and that there are unblockables and the fact that divekick are generally safer they become a great tool on wake up even outside of EX. As far as EX goes in SFV because frame traps are almost non-existent it is hard to apply pressure even after a EX. If you manage to land an EX you do get a bit of damage but not nearly as much as you do in SF4.

Granted I will give you that we have only played the Beta so our SFV knowledge is limited but on a whole i don’t believe that SFV divekicks are as strong as SF4 at this point in time

Cammy is groovy, I will give the ol’ Camster a go in this.

With v-trigger on, are her specials the same as the ex version? So DP is 3 frame, spike is + on block, spiral is fireball invincible, etc?.

Interestingly her most + on block is EX razor edge slicer (the no input followup to hooligan) at +3. And the knockdown timing is huge at 44 frames if they back rise, meaning you theoretically get a free 6 frame safejump.

Not exactly some, such as Cannon Spike have completely new animations. Also, VT Cannon Strike still pierces while, as of beta 2 the EX no longer does so.

Some oki after HK cannon spike:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzwtDdvMlw4

If they backroll the divekick makes contact (though not meaty so they most likely can react), if they don’t quickrise you can time a meaty f.hk and if they mash dp the divekick beats it (though if they quickrise and mash you lose).

A 4 frame safe jump if they quickrise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVHo3yPNqkY&feature=youtu.be

Can’t get anything to work if they backroll

Also I’m not sure if it’s universal, but on crouching opponents Cammy can do 3 lights into special, ie: cr.lp, cr.lp, s.lp xx spiral arrow.

Two questions: super is 6 frame startup? Did they giver her another crush counter in place of cr.hp?

Don’t all sweeps crush counter now?

Her go 2 crush counter is StHk now I believe. As for how fast her super is I’m not sure the exact frames

Yeah I just thought every character had 2 CCs of their own. CCs are always tied to heavies so if cr.hp is gone only option would be f.hk and from the PSX footage it isn’t the case. I believe she’s the only character in the cast with only one CC now, but at least s.hk is a good antiair.

Karin only has one CC

I believe she has a just frame combo @“DevilJin 01” . Crush counter walk forward s.mp, s.hp xx special. It does negligible more damage than the easier version, but 40 more stun which makes the difference between stunning in 2 openings or three (though I suppose it would let you get a stun with less scaling).

Dummy is set to backroll, mash either jab or throw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlAtOH9l4KM

I take back my statement about no high stun characters in this game lol. This does 300 from the jump in combo and 600 hundred from the counter hit+stun combo, enough to kill chunli outright.

Also spiral arrow is OP for punishing blocked fireballs. Poor shotos.

Wouldn’t surprise me if the Cross Assult Stinger is as fast as the Killerbee Assult from Alpha3.
The only Super that was as fast, as Shin Bisons Ultimate Psycho Crusher of 80% life destroying fullscreen stupidness.

At least the Super works the same.
“Oh you threw a fireball? Thanks for letting me in!”

What? Crush counter has to be on Counterhit, the only Cammy I saw on the Experience was divekicking, Cannon Spiking Poongko.
Basicly if you block a DP -> st.hk -> f.hp -> cr.mp V-Trigger? Yes! canceln into V-Trigger -> st.hp xx HK Arrow -> DP/CA
No! xx HK Arrow/DP

But so far is Poongko the worst example, Cammys groundgame can be brutal and he was just jumping and made her uneffective with this.

If you want to know how to play Cammy effective in SFV, I suggest you to watch some CVS2 Combofiend. He loves CVS2 Cammy.
Good for me, I love Footsies.

Interesting. So with the just frame combos are you still technically using the buffer but just in another way being forced to link within a tight 1/2 frame timing?

I don’t think the buffer works in this case. Since you’re walking forward you’re in a neutral state so you have to hit it on the exact timing.

My guess on how the buffer works is that it’s a “turbo” and repeats your inputs for 2-3 frames. That’s why it’s so hard to buffer lights without the special coming out or how if you press a light and a heavy immediately the heavy will come out as soon as the light is fully finished.

So whenever you walk forward you’re taking the buffer out of equation. Cammy has another just frame link like this in s.mp (counterhit), s.mp, though it’s not useful.

Cammy “vortex”: combo ending in SK spiral arrow, dash, s.hk. If no quickrise do v-skill.

Hits meaty vs all wakeups, counterhits jabs and stand techs, hits jumps and backdashes, and you can even link a s.hp after the v-skill.

https://youtu.be/zJaUWsyyT14

Oops sorry d3v

Holy shit that f.hk change