Scrubbiest question of the century coming: why even bother with anything but meaty j.HK on wake-up?
I don’t understand why you should play around with instant SJ BK’s and all that. You already have enough guessing with the meaty. You can meaty behind them or in front of them, and you can follow it up with a BK behind them, or in front of them, or if you land a late cross-up, you can just follow it into combo.
Is it because some people can see whether it will hit behind or in front?
Also, I think I read somewhere that you can simply grounded BK ambiguous cross-up somebody on wake-up. Just waiting and then BK’ing, either hitting them from the front or the back. Is this true? I can’t get it to connect on the back on either character.
here crossup / wakeupgame realy needs more explanaton from the experts wath are the options (some/most are mentioned here earlyer) AND HOW ACTUALY execute them? (not mentioned in a excat mannner this would be one of my questions how actualy execute crossovers with here and wich ranges would be best(i like the idea from midrange mentioned on or two posts earlyer)
Well meaty jump ins kinda telegraph your hit so yeh. If you want a good wake up cross up try jumping forward (normally) but doing a mk bk asap in the air (ie on the way up). The only thing with this is the timing has to be pretty strict if you wanna hit a crouched opponent, which is why the instant hj bk might be better. But i struggle with instant bk’s on the xbox 360 controller tbh, so i dont really do them.
Also it only delivers a 2 guess option, and can become routine. Having opponent worry about a cross up, overhead, jump in, meaty crouching foward, or seismic hammer makes someone think much more. A lot of times I try and setup an opportunity to start a jump in by doing various things from ideal jump in range. If I can land a jump in combo, the opponent is gonna be real close to stunned, if not already stunned. Also in my experience after hitting someone with a flashy combo they tend to do quick get ups or reversals(in frustration) both which I can punish to finish off the necessary stun. Nothing feels better than seeing a person turn a 350-380 damage mistake turn into a 500 to 700 damage mistake with rash decision making.
What is the best method to get mp tk to connect after a seismo? I stuggle to the extent i never even try them online just go for bks cause i find im more consistent. The problem is i don’t think a tk feint to mp tk is really viable online cause of the strict timing, and the delayed mp tk its hard to get it int that window just before its too late to sj and hard to just tget the move to come out full stop. I find myself doing an empty sj going backwards more often than not. Thoughts?
eh…how to deal with run away Akuma that shoot a zillion hadokens from air and ground?..(I read “how to deal with hadoken”…but is the mixup with air that is killing me)…when i finally get close to him and ready to woop him, Akuma teleport away and start the drill again…sigh :sad:
But meaty already has the cross-up guessing covered. The only thing that involves different guessing is duck guessing with a seismo on wake-up, and those are too easy to see.
I guess you could do the other options on Blanka and Gief because the reversal.
Also, maybe I get it… So uf, m.bk and EX seismo both come out in the same time, forcing your opponent to either stand or duck? And then you can choose the third option of cross-up instead if you’d rather do that and go for a combo. Is that how it works?
Catch him early on a air fireball and super jump hk burning kick at him. All of his air fireballs angle pretty low to the ground so if you just walk up near him and then sjc hk burn kick as soon as he takes to the air you’ll blast him out of the sky. Don’t blindly try and jump at him a bunch of times to get close. Just walk and block the air fireballs or focus attack dash through them until he whiffs an air fireballs close enough to you and fly up and burn kick. There’s nothing he can do to stop your sjc burn kick once he throws out the air fireball. He’s free for the picking at that point. You can also catch him landing from an air fireball with good timing with a regular or EX seismo.
That tactic makes the matchup so much more manageable for her than other characters since she never really has to play the air fireball war with him. He has to stick to grounded fireballs which are still pretty good but Viper has plenty options to deal with grounded fireballs as well. You just have to get aggressive with your seismos and burn kicks once you get him grounded. If you think he’s going to go for a grounded fireball from near full screen length blast him with HP seismo. If he’s anything closer than that and you have meter, EX seismo. Even if the fireball still hits you the trade is way more in your favor damage wise and you get just enough time to close a bit of gap on him. You can also f+MP to hop over them or qcb+LP under them.
To think of some other options…if he throws a regular fireball at you and it’s close enough where you don’t really have any option other than to block you can focus attack dash backwards or forwards so you don’t have to wait for the block stun to move again. Obviously you can’t do this against EX fireball or fire fireball. When you’re at about sweep distance away if he throws a fireball you can super jump burn kick over it and hit him. You can do an EX seismo right before a fireball hits you and the EX seismo will allow Viper to go through the fireball completely. You can always just block or jump straight up once you get a rhythm going and know what you can take. Those two options are your absolute safest but they don’t really help you win the match by themselves. Eventually you have to get in to win.
I think this vid specifically will give you ideas on what to do. Ignore the fact that C.Viper loses a ton of health to raging demon. :lol:
Burn kick doesnt hit as an overhead, they dont have ot be standing to block it. You can cross up with burn kick so they have to block the other direction, which is the purpose of a jump forwward mk bk cross up. But yeh you have a bunch of options for their wake up, so gotta keep it mixed up.
Akuma has a good keep away game, but remember Viper has awesome mobility (if not the best) to keep with him. A good punisher is the EX thunder knuckle, as long as he isn’t throwing jab fireballs your EX knuckle will fly under it and tag him as he is landing. If he is dumb enough to back himself into a corner with this you can land the EX knuckle and then go into her feint combo for massive stun. You can super jump and roundhouse burning kick to close the space between you as well. If the opponent gets wise to you super jumping at him and starts teleporting, bait the teleport by going for the super jump and then a short burning kick to drop straight down on him. You should be right on top of him or close enough to land a crouching forward xx TK when he becomes vulnerable.
Question about cancels. I haven’t got the game yet (waiting for the PC version) but what are cancels used for? I watched some Dashio videos today and that guy cancels like a mofo, yet I don’t see what the use is (besides looking all technical). Do they let you execute moves that you couldn’t do without the cancel or do they give you less cooldown time? Or is it to play tricks with your opponent with the seismic hammer cancel?
Everything you said and more. Wait till you get the game and read as much of this thread as you can. It’ll all make sense then. They allow you to string your attacks quicker, bait the opponent into doing things, fierce, feint, fierce and so on.
is viper’s game mostly on mixups and reads? or is she a character where she depends on her ultra (like rufus, sag, ryu etc) or is she both? reason i ask is that i find it hard to set up for her ultra.
most matches i never ever see her ultra. maybe 25% of the time. is that normal?
If you’re in the corner you can go BK > Ultra. If you hit them with a jumping strong kick you can go right into ultra. If you juggle with a seismo near the corner you can ultra, or (ex) seismo >BK > ultra.
If you hit your opponent with a crouching medium you can SJC into an ultra. You can also do this with a standing light kick, but have slightly less timing.
She can pretty much ultra off everything. It just needs some execution. Training mode, HO!
She doesn’t really depend on her ultra, she relies more on her mixups and mobility. If you’re too stationary or you get predictable with your super jumps you will get punished and you can’t afford to be with her health. Stay aggressive and work on a couple combos to build up stun on the opponent.
Both. She technically has the most ways to combo into Ultra of any character in the game. She can focus cancel with no meter using a super jump cancel which allows her to do stuff like c.HP, EX seismo, super jump cancelled focus cancel into Ultra. Which allows her to Ultra any character mid screen easily. I think that’s even easier to do than her linked normal attacks into Ultra.
Viper has to use a lot of mix up games and reads because her pokes aren’t the strongest. This was done to balance her and mainly because story wise she’s not much a fighter. She leaves most of her fighting to the battle suit she wears and just uses basic fighting techniques on top of that. Which is why none of her regular attacks are real complex looking. The game wants you to take advantage of her specials and tools to get in and mix people up. She can do all kinds of tricky stuff that other characters simply can’t do.
I love Viper and she definitely has all sorts of glitchy shenanigans, like SJC canceling into Ultra off normals, being able to combo fierce punches, a crazy good cross up game with burning kick, being able to combo into ultra by feinting after a normal, free FADC’s, and all that. Still though I don’t understand how people can say she is as good as Sagat, I mean Viper does have bad matchups, Sagat doesn’t. Even if some how Viper had more favorable match ups, having no bad matchups is a huge thing for tounry play. I think Viper is a top tier character just not Sagat tier.
Of course this is just my opinion, and I’m no where near a godlike Viper or anything.
