Thanks for the investigative work boys! we really appreciate it here!
I’m just trying to pick out all the bad things and try to be has pessimistic as I can, just cuz thats how i am. So in conclusion
Negatives
No health Boost
No boost in walk speed (One said there was, and one said there wasn’t. I’m going with the worst case scenario)
BK possible 1-2 frames added disadvantage
MP TK feels slower
c.mk wasn’t fixed
c.mp no noticeable differences
EX TK is the same
FA still sucks
U1 went down to only 480 dmg
Seismo the same (im assuming bad recovery still etc)
Normals the same
Positives
HP TK more priority
FFF damage is same
That is what I essentially gathered… is that correct?
Just to reconfirm, most of what Former said was spot on.
HPTK CAN still be thrown same as before, reversal timing on wake up and all the other stupid ways will work on her just the same (happened to me about 10 times) It does seem to be MUCH more consistent in beating moves out, but it’ll still trade with stuff too (I tested it against most of Ken’s jump ins and it’s more than possible for it to trade). You still get the old trade benefits. Oh, but recovery does seem faster.
Cr. MK is still shite but to be honest, she’d be too good if it wasn’t - i just wish they shrunk the animation to hit the hitbox…Didn’t feel any faster to me at all.
Dunno what Cr. MP buff was meant to be…I saw nothing, still got beat out by dumb stuff
didn’t notice BK nerfs…MPTK looks like it actually MOVES slower…they may have reanimated it. Cr. MP MPTK spam still works
Overall I feel cheated on the HPTK still being thrown and low MK not hitting but, she has a MAJOR buff in that she still deals good damage, where pretty much everyone else seems to be doing a lot less. You can eat BnB’s from Sagat or jump ins from Ken and live to tell the story. T-Hawk is going to KILL her (I used him the whole tourny n got top 16)
Not really feeling how lengthy the matches feel now though to be honest. I’m going to have to pick up sub characters (Ibuki and Makoto) to try and cover her bad matchups - playing as T-Hawk showed me that I’m working too hard for wins right now…but she’s not way worse than before or anything.
PS. wouldn’t worry too much about Dudley, she should be fine against him.
haha i just like to point out all the negatives before ppl get all hyped up
So another update to my list
Negatives
No health Boost
No boost in walk speed (One said there was, and one said there wasn’t. I’m going with the worst case scenario)
BK possible 1-2 frames added disadvantage
MP TK feels slower
c.mk wasn’t fixed
c.mp no noticeable differences
EX TK is the same
FA still sucks
U1 went down to only 480 dmg
Seismo the same (im assuming bad recovery still etc)
Normals the same
HP TK can still be thrown
Positives
HP TK slight improvement of recovery
FFF damage is same
Haha the only benefits is…leaving her damage unchanged, which isnt’ a buff
The only buff i see is the recovery on HPTK
Nerfs include
Possible BK frmaes
MP TK feels slower
U1 went down to only 480 dmg
But c.mk still really bothers me…why!!!
also note that c.mk sjc in ultra… doesnt always hit, if its far enough, so with fixed hit box, it means u can play footsies, not necessarily connect mptk or ultra…
Is the “instant ground” BK still there i.e Hold a direction then finish the BK motion slowly to u/f or u/b or u+K. Hard to explain it but the one that Dashio does alot on wake-up against Abels, Rufus’ etc…
EX TK, regular seismo SJC U2 sound possible?
Is U2 startup up fast enough to make: corner FP TK, fadc SJCU2 or corner EX seismo, MP TK, SJCU2 connect? To add a little more damage to the standard EX Seismo SJCU2 comb
All Burst Time combos still work ?
Poke TK feint > Poke or SJC BK or overhead, etc… Still good?
Thx for the info though, I’m LOVING the thought of INVINCIBLE start-up FP TK fadc back or forward on block for safety… That will mix in nicely with wake-up EX Seismo. That also would make wake-up EX seismo FEINT more scary due to her FP TK pretty much being a shoryuken on wake-up now.
If c mk is faster, can she c mk faint c mk? Doubt it but it would be sweet.
Can U2 even combo after a burn kick? if it can’t combo from a burn kick I feel like U1 will still be the best.
What’s the damage on FFF sjc U2?
Can U2 only be SJCed off of fierce? Without jab sjc ultra she will lose her ability to punish some things with ultra.
Question about cr.mk that was in vanilla and I’m guessing it the same for Super. The hit box for her goes both ways right? I mean if her foot goes through opponents does that mean dps/srks go through her foot? Never realized it from the other way around since my buddy usually does it closer that expected.
Pretty strange and opposite info here… Like no health boost and no walking speed increase though it had been announced ?
hp tk being unthrowable then throwable like before ? (I suspect that hp tk beating a lot more moves cleanly means less startup frames, and not throw inv.)
About hp tk, fadc, ultra2 , it may be difficult, but is part of the challenge list (in c.hp, hp tk, fadc, ultra2) so it has to be possible.
Relieved about inability to punish blocked bk with dp.
Difficulty to hit confirm into ultra2 is bad news though. What’s U2 damage anyway ?
Mr.Wizard checked Viper’s health on IRC and found it was still at 900. Which really doesn’t matter a ton since if u block u won’t die and everything does less damage any way. I knew Viper’s focus was still gonna be ass. MP thunder knuckle having more start up frames is retarted. Yeah Viper’s insanely risky and hole ridden offense needed bigger gaps.
Though HP TK being better in any way and recovering faster on whiff is a godsend almost. c.MK still being ass makes me want to run up the wall so hopefully c.MP is that much better. Otherwise if she didn’t get toned down on damage output then she’ll be plenty viable. With shoryus not being as gdlk hopefully that means she won’t get randomed out as fast. All of the things we were hoping would be improved with Viper were mostly overlooked or not dealt with and that has me rather dissapointed but we’ll see.
oh yeah, vipers last few trials have been changed subtly. the EX seismo combos now have super jump hk burn kick rather than tiger knee hk burn kick. should probably make them less confusing for people just starting to learn her.
yea pretty sad to see nothing really addressed, bk, tk nerfs…
slight recovery change really depends on what ppl can do to punish it.
i mean if u look at sagat, he looks more beastly than ever, his AS can connect to ultra
Ground to air TU still takes like 160 dmg, u can cancel his s.hk into specials.
if anyhting they made sagat into a funner character.
Just like the surprised Ono promised, the work they put into tweaking these sf4 characters are shitty.
U2 will work after regular seismos also. even from HP seismo’s full screen. just SJC forwards and U2 just about half screen.
Instant Ground BK is still in the game
EX TK, regular seismo SJC U2 can be done
I tried this combo multiple times and wasnt able to pull it off. its just that there isnt enough time to jump off the ground and U2 while the person is still airborne after the MP TK or the FADC’d HP TK. maybe theres some sort of tiger knee method to do U2 but im not too sure, didnt seem possible TBH
All U1 combos are still intact
Not to sure what you mean about the poke combo.
i think this is possible in vanilla if you were to use the HP feint rather then a MP feint.
U2 cant combo after a BK, its got the same properties as a BK so imagine trying to juggle two burn kicks after each other in vanilla. lol aint happening. Also repeating what i said earlier, there wouldnt be enough time to jump up and U2 after the person has been hit with a BK anyways.A good rule of thumb is: “anything you could hit a BK with after the opponent is left in a juggle state, you can do U2 in place of that said BK” U1 is still better then U2
im not to sure what the damage on FFF sjc U2 is but it would scale pretty badly so only really recommended for finishing the match. If you were to do U2 it would be better to keep the combos before it as minimal as possible to provide more damage for the ultra i.e EX seismo SJC U2 or Cr.HP SJC U2
I think the damage for U2 is between 300-420, cant beleive i actually forgot to test this lol
As far as i know its only Fierce, there isnt enough stun IMO to jump up and U2 even if there is a way to do it to a similar way as U1 but i could be wrong.
Are you sure its part of the trial list? where did you see that? didnt feel possible to me from my impressions though.
TBH Viper didnt get nerfed to shit at all and theres nothing to worry about. IMHO i feel shes still the same with just a buffed up HP TK and a new way to combo her new ultra.
okay with regards to her health. I thought this was announced? 950 health. Anyways I sent S-Kill a message on Capcom-Unity last night and woke up this morning and he’d replied
My Question:
Original Message:
From: Dan
Subject: RE(2): thanks
Sent: Apr 17, 03:10PM
So I played SSFIV at a preview event here in the UK today. Absolutely loved it. I have one question I’m not sure if you can answer…
Does C.Viper have 950 health?
I had no time to go to training mode
Thank you Seth.
His response:
s-kill
NorCal
Report this message:
RE(3): thanks
Apr 17, 11:41PM
Sounds about right to me
(make of it what you will but it sounds like she has 900 still. I just don’t know.)
yea that means 900, those management types dont really know the in depth detail nor does he memorize the exact health points.
Kinda like how they say there will be no arcade release
or kinda like how u kept the sf4, ull get something REALLY cool…2 measly colors.
so about right can mean 900/950…which most likely means 900
I think the talk about burning kick having a few extra frames of recovery… this is what I was thinking. Maybe there wouldn’t be noticable change for a regular ground BK… but what if you do, let’s say, the SJ towards BK? If it is what I fear it is… this method of getting in may end up being slightly punishable if you end up a.) hitting them early, and b.) end up right next to them. Can anyone confirm that?
I also think that the start-up frames of MP TK increasing… it’s a little sad to see that being changed as well. It was a surprisingly great way to advance, especially after a knockdown. Like someone said, hopefully this means easier MP TK feints… but still sad to see.
However, I am really excited to see that FP TK is now a much more reliable AA. I especially hated how you could get thrown out of it in SFIV, but now this makes pressure situations a little easier to deal with IMO. I hope it beats more jump-ins clean.
I also hope to God that cr.MP and standing MK really are better pokes. I still am disappointed that cr.MK will still whiff but at least you may not get poked to death by half the cast due to cr.MP and improved FP TK.
I rather have EX BK hit standing and crouching opponents (like back in the old loketest days) than EX TK being faster. You can still catch people using EX TK if they do stupid stuff (i.e. people with slow Focus Attack recovery times) and it’s sometimes a good way to get out of corners (depending on situation).
I wish I had the game instead of playing theory fighter. I just wanna play…
