Ah, I see. Wow, that’s…crazy.
I wonder if it can cross-up like a regular BK or Blanka’s U1 if angled right or done in the corner.
All I wanna know is: is far fierce fadc gone? If so, NO SALE CAPCOM. YOU HEAR ME?
Yeah, we all have learnt to hate hp tk I guess… When I use it as an AA I just think “Let’s trade this”…
Correct me if Iam wrong, the opponent still wins the trade (more dmg wise), unless you dash forward for another TK or Ultra. Since the trade + Ultra is taken out in SSF4, I guess ppl will jump more at Vipers.
Its a good thing we got a slightly faster walk speed though, not sure how much this helps but it should be a little bit better getting out of strong footsie characters like Rog or Ryu.
Yes… But as you said, it leads to ultra if you have it. And another aspect is to reset the spacing to a more comfortable distance against characters who like to be in your face. You lose a bit then, but you avoid their mixup.
You know that was really stupid of me to look at the damage comparison of FFF EX Seismo U2 then FTK FADC U2. The set up for the 2nd is much more versatile then trying to land in FFF depending on the match up. The bad match ups are still going to be bad match ups, imo. Nothing so far has convinced me that they fixed the Honda match up. Even with U2 you and the ability to punish some moves Honda has his U2 which will kill Viper easily and is a 1 frame startup. Think about it guys. If Honda can land Oichi he can land U2 for more damage. Rog is still going to be retarded to fight, etc…
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[media=youtube]yuvwHVPFcZI[/media]
I posted it in the regular SFIV Viper thread. Might as well have it here too.
U1 still has alot of set ups that personally to me it will be a hard decision to choose which ultra to use.
- SJC BK either corner or mid screen (situational)
- MK TK in corner
- Anti Air TK
- SJ Dash cancel
- Corner Burning kick
While U2 has the following set ups
Would u guys still choose U1 over U2 if U1 does more damage (assuming it is)? Ultra 1 seems to be able to lead to more damage off the combo’s but requires a fair bit of execution, while ultra 2 might be less damage but requires alot less execution. This is still purely speculation since we dont have confirmation of all U2 setups and damage of the ultra until the game comes out, so think of this as just theory fighting.
Hard to say for sure until we have a good chance to mess around with U2 ourselves, but I’m thinking that U1 will still be the go-to ultra for the most part. But U2 is probably better for certain matches.
I’m using U2 against Honda.
Really depends on how often you can land either Ultra in a match. U1 you had to bait your time and wait for the setup to get the Ultra even though you had more ways to land it. U2 seems like at any given moment you will land that Ultra. Certain setups between the two should carry over like point blank EX Seismo into Ultra 1 or 2. FTK AA into Ultra 2, maybe?
So far the rumors I’ve heard about Viper:
-Fixed hit boxes on c.forward. Apparently SF4 was rushed so there were a lot of fucked up hit boxes but like Dictators Psycho Crusher now has an additional hit at the tail end of it like it other SF games. Honda headbutt goes over low Tiger Shots. Other misc. fixes like that so it seems like Viper’s c.forward got fixed as well.
-Faster s.forward - I don’t see this being all that useful due to its range and follow up options but I would need to see the frame data before I make any judgment calls on this.
-Faster walk speed - This would be quite a buff and would help her footsie game, imo.
-Boost to 950 health - The boost in health would help enough. It’s not just about being able to eat a couple of hits with damage nerfs applied to some of her bad match ups this gives her much more longevitiy in a match. She’ll still be a glass cannon but every little bit helps in the grand scheme of things.
If all of these are true Viper could be shaping up to be pretty strong in Super and with the nerfs on DP’s characters her characters that have strong oki games should be better overall. This is why Akuma is projected to be the new S tier character since his Vortex has been left untouched (so far) and high tier characters in SF4 had their escape options toned down. This should help Viper in the long run with her mix up games but as we all know Viper’s true strength doesn’t solely rely on her oki game.
quick question judging from the buffs and nerfs viper’s bad match up are going to be or worse? like Honda Gief n bison
If everything we’ve been told thus far is true then I don’t see any changes in her bad match ups. They may have gotten worse due to their Ultra 2’s being more useful than Ultra 1. Not much will change in the Gief match up regardless of Siberian Blizzard because you shouldn’t be jumping at Gief recklessly in the first place and your mix up game gets shut out with lariats. Honda is a stupid match up and it had more to do with how Honda could handle Viper with his set of tools, except now he has a 1 frame command grab Ultra that will murder Viper. He was bad enough without having a means to land U1 he will be much worse with a U2. Viper’s U2 doesn’t really do much against Honda except he has to be a bit more careful with random headbutts and butt splashes. Bison has had buffs added to him and his U2 is just as consistent in landing as U1. I actually think U1 is the better choice for Bison against Viper than U2 as it keeps some of Viper’s oki options in check.
Viper vs Sagat: [media=youtube]YOMRP3XqkXo[/media]
looks the same from this vid. I got the impression HP TK has more priority then normal as it stuffs out a few of sagats jump ins then normal. Either that or it starts up faster? I say this because at the end of round two when viper wins, sagat is quite deep in his jump in and HP TK actually hit him where in normal SF4 wouldnt a situation like that cause the move to whiff and leave sagat with a free combo? could just be me though but the viper player sounded quite surprised himself.
BUT most importantly what we CAN FINALLY CONFIRM IS THAT THAT HP TK TRADE forward dash HP TK/ULTRA 1 IS STILL POSSIBLE!! at 0.43 in the vid a HP TK trades with a jump in and the player is still able to dash forward as they would in SF4. how is this possible if this new back flip thingy was added? could be move specific (DP moves only?) or just a isolated incident, only time will tell.
What you guys think?
Zangief having less life is actually pretty useful. Makes our job that much easier, even if it doesn’t seem like a big change.
And, I’ve heard that Honda headbutts do less (?)
Also, I don’t really find myself in a position to be 720’d by Honda very ofteb, since he spends most of his time being defensive and trying to keep Viper out.
Yeah I’m thinking its because TK gets off the ground slower than SRK, same reason Viper can be throw or low poked out of it before she’s airborne.
Although there’s also been reports of Gief not being able to follow up lariat trade w/ anything…so who knows…
Honda had no reason to get in close before since his U1 was garbage and he had no means to land it other than specific scenarios. Honda had a pretty easy time keeping Viper out but it doesn’t mean he can’t go for some mix ups once he’s knocked Viper down. An attempt or 2 at going for U2 isn’t really going to hurt Honda’s position that much if he’s doing oki games on you since Viper barely had an answer to them. He can easily go for something like butt splash oki, land, U2 if your not careful or a jump in into hands FADC U2 among some his other options. He knocks you down all he has to do is stand next to you and you have to guess at a butt splash or U2. You anticipate on butt splash so you back dash out and he anticipates it so he walks up and then does U2 to catch you out of your dash. You sit still and block next time he could just U2 as well. Psychologically it puts him at a good advantage when he’s got a knockdown.
[media=youtube]k8KlEg08o70[/media]
Does it look like fierce knuckle has less recovery, or is it just my imagination?
Yeah it looks like HP Thunder Knuckle has more invincibility now. Before if Sagat did a jump in MP it would trade HP Thunder Knuckle EVERY FUCKING TIME. This means she’ll have a bit easier of a time against jump ins that could beat her Thunder Knuckle clean like Rog j.HP and Honda neutral jump HP.
About Honda…yeah the issue is Honda normally tried to stay away from Viper simply because the match was very easy to win once he got a health lead just by sitting back and reacting to what he did. He has a controllable neutral jump which is huge for winning against Viper. It means he can stay in the air to avoid most of Viper’s ground game (or lack of it) and then he can move himself towards her when he wants and move himself away from Viper if he feels an anti air is coming and stuff it for free with j.HP or make it whiff and punish. Safely anti airing Honda was insanely difficult in the original game and that’s why I was hoping Ultra 2 would be solid air to air so it would force him to stay on the damned ground. Which he kinda wins the ground game too but she can deal with him better on the ground then when he’s playing the helicopter game in the air.
Though Honda didn’t have a particularly difficult time moving in on Viper either and that was the big reason why this match was in her favor. Viper close or far away was never in a good position against Honda. If Honda is in her face she has to worry about a bunch of things that beat her shit. From far range Honda can turtle without too much fear either. Unless Honda gets knocked down he has no reason to fret in this matchup. It’s all on the Viper player to make the most of every opportunity since they don’t come often in the matchup. Though with Honda’s new instant command throw Ultra Honda can just go willy nilly and take risks as long as he ends up landing an Ultra that will take all of her life away. Butt slam mix ups into command throw Ultra is going to be stupid.