It should last a bit longer and either combo through OTG or have similar effect as gravity squeez but instead of an Attack it would cancle flight or Sj and keep you grounded until the spell disappeared(though i kind of think that TP shouldnt be affected as there has to be some draw backs to it) or they could keep it the same and just make it unblockable and last a bit longer maybe 8-10 seconds instead of 5.
Anyone feel that Dark MAtter should have more hit points or have a Faster start up? It makes no sense to me that a bullet can beat it clean, they should at least trade (yes im saying i want Dark matter to have 3 Hit points) or if not they could up the start up and travel speed. There’s a coulpe of other things i liked to see buffed but I dont want to start a big thing about buffs since the game is still really new. Plus Dorm allows me to get alot more creative then Rose in SF4 series so I appreciate the versatility he has.
I think the main issue with 0D3C is that while we can sit here and say “it doesn’t help against Spider-man at all!”, it would also completely destroy characters like Haggar. What is Haggar supposed to do against Dormammu between Flame Carpet and 0D3C? Really, it’s just a difficult tool to balance with a zoning character. If it comboed through OTG, I would probably still rather use 3D0C. I would only bother if it were unblockable, just because 3D0C is just that good.
I think Dark Matter is fine as it is; if we want to talk about buffs to Dormammu, I have a small list. Dormammu is the king of vertical control - he shouldn’t be able to control horizontal space well. This is his primary weakness, and why he has Flame Carpet and the ability to negate projectiles with his normals.
Plus, Dark Matter leads to huge damage on success, and I think we have to consider that - what other projectile can lead to a full combo at full-screen in this game (Phoenix aside)? Then, finally, what other projectile in the game is a command normal aside from Samurai Edge, meaning you can call an assist with it? Dormammu can protect himself from punishment if it whiffs, and that’s something beam characters cannot claim.
0D3C would be useless also if it was unblockable simply because there are level 3 spells which are stronger then 0D3C.
If Haggar is hitted by 0D3C he will have hard times, but only at low level an Haggar player would be caught off guard after seeing you charge three level of creation.
You will find yourself in a situation where if you throw that spell and he jumps you will get a full combo and probably die, while on the other hand if you menage to hit him with the spell you only locked him down but still have to hope to get in with a mixup or be satisfied with some chip damage. It would be a 50/50 situation where if you guess right you don’t get much but if you guess wrong you die.
If dark matter had more durability it would be OP, projectiles are just projectiles, but dark matter is a combo starter that can lead to massive damage.
I think it would depend on whether the 0D3C is refreshable. And Haggar has to land sometime; there are plenty of ways to force him to come down on your terms. I’ll just say that if 0D3C was unblockable, I would definitely put it to use against a good portion of the cast (Deadpool, Viewtiful Joe, MODOK, Trish, Phoenix, Morrigan, Arthur, Amaterasu, just glancing at the roster). Would it be better than 3D0C? Mmm, maybe, it would require testing.
Duke It wouldnt be completly useless lets say you could combo to it after a neutral jump air series. Now you oppent is fullscreen an and has very limited mobility (since walking is really slow for 80% of the cast and normal dashing can be dangerous) They either have to stand there and take chip for 6 seconcds(Im using the buffed one i made up above kncoking of 2 sec since its takes time for a character to stand up) use there hyper or try to get and assist to help with there projectile game. The last two options are good because they force your oppents hand, burn your meter which dorm can more than likely defend against from full screen or call your assist which is risky since dorm can punish for big damage.
As for the Dark Matter Karst, I get what your saying about how it has more potienal then other projectiles but with 3 points wouldnt it still lose to a majority of projectiles in the game while still becoming more of threat. At the same time it still takes 20 or so frames to start up along with recovery so i would think it has a pretty lenient window to be punished, even if it was to trade.
Well, if you are thinking of a 0D3C which is unblockable, can OTG and last longer maybe I would try it. But i was talking about a 0D3C which is like the one we have with the only buff of being unblockable.
I still think that there are really few scenarios where I would prefer to start a combo when I’ve got a 0D3C stored instead of a 2C1D or a 3D0C.
With the 0D3C you renounce to too much damage.
Let’s put it this way: If you use it in a combo you’ll do very little damage while outside of a combo it’s inferior to other spells because there are such good tools like 2C1D and 3D0C which give a great help to your zoning even if blocked (and if these are not blocked they give you so much benefits that I don’t even need to talk about it).
You do bring up a good point, but like with some others here it’s still to early to visually see the effectiveness of 0D3C. Out of all the “guesses” you can fire off with any combination of Dark Spells with Dormammu, 0D3C is definitely one of the worst (at this time). You pretty much guess right or nothing. Even then guessing right doesn’t nearly give that many advantages IMO.
At least with 1D2C, 2D1C, 3D0C (in terms of 3 Charge Spells) you get so many different things guessing right (or wrong):
(EX:)
-Controlling Space
-Applying Pressure
-Builds Meter (Goes insane when Dormammu is at XFC LVL 2 & 3)
-3D0C ----> OTG/Full Combo (sometimes killing most characters)
-2D1C ----> OTG in the Corner xx Super, Controls Space
-1D2C ----> Controls Massive Space, Hit Confirm/Super
In theory, 0D3C would work well against someone like Haggar, look at the tools Dormammu already has against Haggar. Between Flame Carpet, 2 great Supers, Purification, Telport, Dark Spells (of many varieties), he makes his life a living hell even without using 0D3C.
I’m definitely going to continue to play with the spell more in Training Mode/Casuals/Tournaments, but where I am right now I find that there are better charges to go for (especially given the time that most good/Top Players give you to charge)
Eh…as much as I hate Wesker, I would be worried about how he would deal with Dormammu without his gunshot.
Eh, you’d just need blockstun from an assist. Not too bad… I would mess with it, regardless, if it were unblockable.
I’m thinking it would be more circumstantial, like how all of Dormammu’s liberations should be. For example, if your opponent has Haggar as his anchor, and you get down to him, I think using 0D3C would be defensible over the other options.
I think 0D3C wins the award for “ability that seems to have the most potential, but no actual uses”. Let us know if you find anything good!
I agree with you guys he has other spells that way out prioritize 3C. I would be telling a big ass lie if said i actually try to make use of this spell regularly, I was more so trying to show that it does have some potienal and how/where i think it could be most effective. While leaving notes about what could be done to make it an overall better move with my imagined buffed version.
Karst Cant wesker TP even if the bullet is Destroyed?(legitmate question i really dont know if he can or cant) If so he would just TP like regular and countinue with his pressure.
Right, but just like all teleports, they aren’t safe. The purpose of Samurai Edge is to make them safe. If you removed this, I would be cautious of how it affected Wesker.
some serious theory fighting going on in here…
3C is simply ass and not even worth the trouble of trying to find a “setup” for it. i’ll honestly be shocked if a setup was found thats worth using it.
they should just patch the game and replace 3C with a fullscreen flame carpet 0_0 or maybe a wall that acts like MODOK’s shield but has an actual hitbox…
now things like that would be worth the 3 spells, but the current 3C is just there for the “oh fuck” factor, as in you were going for 2C but you forgot you already had a 1C stored and now you’ve wasted your spells =/
I get what your saying now Karst, though i dont think he would be compeletly without options i do understang your point.
Lol Eternal Blaze you really have no sympothy for 3C, i doubt they would replace it entirly because that would be a new tool (which could effect the over all balance of the game) not altering the mechanics of a old move which has less chance of making a dramatic change.
Haha, but that’s why, if I have time for 2 Dark Spells, I always charge 2Cs (assuming I’m going for 1D2C); otherwise I’ll forget later.
I still think an altered 0D3C would have a place in this game. For now, 3D0C and 1D2C are pretty much the best in my opinion. 2D1C is great, but it has some positioning issues - it’s so finicky.
I personally love 2C more than any of the other spells, 3D is a close second. they both work really well with the way i play my team (Dorm/Task/Dante).
Call Jam session 2C Dark Hole xx Chaotic Flame, Beautiful combo. this works without the 2C but i like it there for extra damage and extra flashiness xD
@Kaz:
which is why theyre working on “super MvC3” right now, first thing theyll adjust is 3C and make it a move thats worth a shit =)
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to discourage anyone completely from trying out 0D3C. The thing is in a matchup where you are playing someone who is good if not a lot better, you only get so many chances (or very little to none) to charge up Dark Spells (let alone 3), so it’s better to go for the most versatile ones to maximize damage output/space controlling and don’t have limited uses.
Haha I agree. Yes, I definitely will post up if I find anything good/unusual for 0D3C.
I session with a large group of friends 2-3 times a week, so I get to experiment a lot with Dormammu’s stuff, so hopefully I’ll run into something semi-effective (or situational).
Also I know Arthur was mentioned regarding 0D3C. The thing is, most Arthur players will pair him with Assists that cover his dead spots/gaps. They will also mix from being grounded (where IMO, he’s weaker because of mobility) and controlling mid-screen/air space. 0D3C is such a bad guess for that matchup. With at least 3D0C, you can apply pressure if he decides to be on the ground pressing buttons or decides to press a button in the air.
New question, does Dormammu’s Chaotic Flame put him about the ground slightly (per animation). I had been wondering why in the Mirror, Dormammu couldn’t LVL3 another Dorm’s Chaotic Flame once it’s out.
My current favourite is 1D:1C. Mainly because in the corner I can build both charges mid-combo and get over 800K for one bar of meter, or if I build one charge beforehand I get the same damage anywhere on the screen :razzy:
I can honestly say I have only ever used 0D2C in training mode and on accident.
Anyway, changing the 0D3C properties is probably just an on/off trigger for them. If they build their code well, there’s probably a trigger that determines how it can be blocked.
I’m going to write something up about this soon. Basically, it’s because Dark Dimension has a projectile hitbox, just like any other projectile hyper, and Chaotic Flame kills it. Pretty much every beam hyper (even Hyper Psionic Blaster) will “kill” Dark Dimensions ground projectile that travels along.
Last night I finally finished testing the conflicts between every pair of hypers in the game - so tired. Yet, a ton of knowledge gained.
I am too greedy for this. I will always push for one more C.