Yeah sure, I’ll record it sometime today.
I can honestly say, that I have not noticed any difference at all in regards to how high I jump, or how long I’m in the air when using :d::u: and simply tapping :u: (or :uf:) in any combo after a grounded :s: that I use with any character. I can’t argue about what you’re talking about, because I really have no idea if there is some minute difference happening, but if there is, for the purposes of practically every combo I use, it doesn’t matter.
Ditto.
DukeSharp, if you’re saying Zero’s MMHS doesn’t work if you :d::u:, I’ll check it tonight; if you want to keep the conversation constructive, try not to make idiotic requests, such as asking me to provide you with the game’s coding. You say there’s a difference, then there’s a very, very easy way to prove it: show me an example. I asked for that example twice (thrice now), and got nothing. Personally, I spent the first week I played this game using :d::u: instead of :u: after :s:, because I forgot you could just push :u:, and there were no differences that I could tell.
I’m completely open to being wrong here, but really, unless you actually list a very specific example of something that works with one and not the other, 100% of the time, and why it does not work, I’ll assume you’re just trolling, and this will be the end of our discussion.
Habit from playing Marvel Super Heros and a few Vs games after that. But yeah you can just use U. I have no idea if the game code is different or not as you mentioned in a later post.
I’ve tested both and they both seem to work for me with zero. The only thing is, it is a little more difficult if you just push :u:. Well… difficult isn’t the word. You just have space out your button imputs more. The way Zero floats, and the short range all but j.:h:, it makes it a little difficult to to the whole combo if you don’t do :d::u: because :d::u: delays the entire air combo. It only takes a few frames more but that could enough to throw off your timing for the air combo.
In fact it doesnt’ matter whether you press :u: or :d::u: after :s:. any upward movement will put you into a super jump state, from my experience. The thing is, you can delay your super jump x amount of frames, and the super jump will still come out. I cannot remember, but i was playing with viper and I was doing something where I hit :s: on the ground, and it didn’t launch my opponent, but when I hit up, she still went into a super jump. Can’t remember what i was doing but i’ll see if I can find it.
Honestly I don’t think it matters as long as the execution is on point… Just my opinion though…
EDIT - After reading my post over again, i realized the difference (and why viper jumped). Its because :d::u: is more of a command jump and :u: only works as a super jump in certain situations. I believe I was doing assist combos with viper so i hit with :s: and then the assist hit, and i tried to do the box jump combo, and she super jumped instead of regular jumping. I pressed :d::u:. If I would’ve just pushed up, even though I hit with :s:, since the assist hit afterwards, she would’ve done a normal jump. its important to note that, for me at least, any move that can be jump cancelled can also be super jump cancelled, hence the necessity of a difference in joystick imput. So simply put:
:u: will ALWAYS make you jump
:d::u: will ALWAYS make you super jump
Exceptions:
both :s::u:, and :s::d::u: will ALWAYS cause a super jump EXCEPT:
–if the opponent is hit with another attack. In this case a normal jump will come out
–X factor is activated, so no jump comes out
–:s: can be cancelled somehow
I have personally found no indication that the two are dissimilar outside of what I have already stated.
does this make sense?
Pick Zero, put yourself in a corner then do this combo: cr.:l:, cr.
, cr.:h:, f.:h:, [s.:l:, s., s.:h:, f.:h:] *2 :s:, j., j., j.:h:, j.:s: Rekkoha
That request was sarcastic because you said: “Your character is considered to be placed in the superjump state by the game’s code”, which is an idiotic sentence considering you don’t have access to the game’s code.
Anyway, beside the technicism, I would like to know why Karsticles thinks is good idea to use “sj” in the notation when it’s clearly misleading for a new player (also considering that the target of a guide is obv the new players).
I should start a long winded rage post about how someone is using a word that means one thing, as a meaning for something else.
I think you are nit-picking a bit too much. Seriously, every other character thread uses a similar notation and everyone knows what it implies. If it doesn’t work for you and you have to make small changes to get it to work, then by all means do that. But Karsticles has gone out of his way to really clean up the Dormammu forum. I no longer play Dormammu but this forum is by far the cleanest of all character forums. the official strategy guide uses the same notation for crying out loud.
Feel free to correct me, it helps improving my english. Thank you.
Yeah i tend to do that sometimes, but this all started as an advice on how I think the notation should be for helping new players don’t get confused.
Didn’t mean to start a long discussion on “the game’s code”.
I agree with DukeSharp, i thought to make an issue of it early on when people always used super jump cancel instead of jump canceling. There’s a DISTINCT difference between a super jump and a jump; but practically and by convention, no-one mistakes the “sjc” notation for actually meaning super jump cancel instead of jump cancel. So truth be told I’d love to search and replace sjc with jc but it’s not a big deal.
The problem only arises when someone finds a combo actually requires a super jump cancel and not a jump cancel…:xeye:
I only threw that comment in to be a smartass, and to say that you’re really making a big deal out of something very trivial. In fact, you make the claim that what Karst is stating is counterintuitive for “new players” and detrimental, when in fact, what you’re upset about is such an isolated case that almost no new player would ever know the difference.
I assumed English may have been your second (or third) language due to your location, and your English is already a lot better than most around here, and it’s certainly better than my Italian.
I think I’ve made my perspective pretty clear - I consider our conversation complete.
In order to have a conversation there must be at least two person so I think it’s over for me too, although I don’t feel completely satisfied.
Peace.
Ok, so lets try to consolidate and move on:
I think there was an argument about two differnt things here. It seems that on one hand, this is an imput argument. On the other hand, this was a notation argument. You guys are speaking two differnt languages, and you both are correct in your own way.
@ DukeSharp–I think that you are correct in questioning the use of “j” and/or “sj” in combos. Considering that you see the imputs of :u: and :d::u: giving you different results, combos may not work depending on which you use (like with your zero combo). Personally, i see no difference for me, so that leads me to believe that it is a timing issue. The thing is, I honestly believe the only difference is how long it takes you to push down then up as opposed to pushing up. But… I don’t think you’re nitpicking… I think you just need clarification on what actually works (based on the combo you’re reading and trying to do) and what needs adjusting.
@ Everyone else–I dont’ know about you all, but when I read jump or super jump, i dont’ read :u: or :d::u:. There is a difference between “input” and “position” Just like all other notations on the beginning of moves, j and sj do not indicate an action, but your position on the screen. Look:
s.:l: = standing. There is no joystick imput. It refers to your position: on the ground.
c.:l: = crouching. Again, refferring to your position: on the ground
j.:l: = normal jumping. position: normal jump height
sj:l: = super jumping. position: super jump height
Don’t think of these as imputs. they are positions on the screen. There is an exception: Trinagle jumping. This is the exception because you are doing a command super jump input but you are ADDF so you don’t actually reach super jump height. This is not because you can’t do it from regular jumping, but because super jumping leaves the ground much more quickly than normal jump, allowing for an easier and more complete mixup. Now due to command normals, we also have joystick imputs that go in combos:
:f::l: = Hold Forward and Light Attack command attack, :f: does not notate position
:d::l: = Hold Down and Light Attack command attack (like Cap’s Anti Ground kick using :h:), does not notate position
:l: = Hold Back and Light Attack command attack, does not notate position
etc.etc.
The thing is j.:h:, sj.:h:, and sj (direction) :h: are three different things. I know its difficult to nottate all of this into a combo… but we have to see these differences and work them out on our own or our combos won’t work. I don’t think we need to standardize the notations. That’s me though… i’m old school… I like to figure things out. I think that, since we aren’t all actually speaking in person that we take the combos we look at on SRK with a grain of salt. Yes a lot of new comers will have trouble… They are supposed to have trouble. They’re new! And they have to look for the nuances in the combos that makes them easier to use for them.
I hope this helps. I think as a general rule though, when we see j. or sj. it related to the position, not the input. If you need to air combo, then just do whats right for you to get up there. If :u: works then use that. If not, use:d::u:. Its really not much more difficult than trial and error.
Okay I won’t deny I didn’t read this entire thread yet but Im working on Dormammu and just did Mission 7 and also saw on the main post of this thread to do [c.b f.h] x 3 and I got it really easily in Mission 7 against VJoe but in training mode I was trying against Felicia, Sent, and Amaterasu and not getting it against any of them.
Is my timing off or does it not work? Is there a fix I should know about like adding another move or something?
it seems to only work at normal juggle height with smaller characters like joe and arthur. I found that I could juggle with it or do air resets with the joe bomb assist combo since it juggles lower than normally (e.g. frame carpet juggle).
[media=youtube]kkLcYIUlVPI[/media]
Sorry this took so long to get up, but here’s the wall bounce combo without the Wesker assist.
Bmeister that is so fresh imma start working on that, will the
Hitsun be good enough to OTG with an assist after that combo?
i’ll also cross post too, since some of you guys may team with Hulk. You can DHC OTG into Dorms lvl 3 after hulk gamma crush. It’s overkill, but for whatever reason if you wanted to DESTROY a character, you can do hulk bnb into gamma wave (OTG) gamma crush and if you DHC as hulk’s hopping backwards you can catch the op for the second or so they’re on the ground.
There is just barely enough hitstun to land Wesker B into a full relaunch combo, anything with more hits might be scaled down too much, but I haven’t played around with it much.