Built in input lag?

I like your no win scenario, because that’s more or less what I imagine to be the case. I know Capcom, and I know they hate doing things correctly the first, second or sixteenth time. I would hope at the least, they could sync the two versions of the game to play with the same delay. This preferably would mean decreasing the PS4 delay, not increasing the PC’s.

If the PC version has 4.9 frames of delay or what have you, then I’d to think they could at least get it down to that on the PS4. However, there’s also the fact the PS4 literally can’t even run SFV without having a seizure. The game is horribly optimized.

Delay does not mean that footsies are going to cease to exist. Have you ever played online in previous fighters and seen footsies and confirms? Yes, you probably have, and you’ve probably done it yourself. However, it will always be to a degree less than you are capable of. It’s funny because online tournaments were shunned for so long because “the lag would make it biased.” Yet here we are, with a game with permanent online, and not even like… really nice connection online when it comes to the PS4, like “Oof, this guy is kinda laggy” kind of connection.

I know Japanese players don’t complain outright, but to be fair, Japanese people are generally either completely silent about something, or extremely vocal about it. I imagine most pro players are just like “Eh, nothing I can do about it.” It doesn’t mean they don’t notice it. This is most especially true for the veterans who have experienced the non-delays of old. However, they’re experienced enough to, as always, adapt, don’t complain. They’ll play it however it is, but that doesn’t mean they may not secretly dislike it. Think of how many voices came out about SFIV when that game finally wasn’t the only SF choice for the tournament scene. People bottle it up man, and they’ll keep doing it because it’s their job, and complaining doesn’t help them win.

For other people however, complain away, so we can see these pros play at the level they deserve to play at.

You can be indifferent, but all I want, is that if someone was to ask you about the input delay, that you should probably be saying something like “I wish it was less, but it is what it is.” That’s a fine response. It’s the people (and there are a surprising amount of them) that are saying it’s fine, and that Capcom shouldn’t bother wasting time fixing it that bother me.

More frames to an already frame related problem. Delay is pseudo start-up frames when it comes to reaction time. Though I would agree that the actually 5 frame start-up is more an issue for Gief. I think it’s very likely he will get start-up buffs in season 2, even if it’s just on his EX.

Does anyone know if the beta had less input lag on ps4? it sure as hell felt that way for some reason. It also felt a lot easier to anti air and whiff punish as well in the beta. It’s either that or I’m just faster with a controller than a arcade stick…

Would be great if someone could test this as I feel the same way.

I’ve been extremely busy at work for the last few months. I think it’s going to slow down just a bit soon where I can have enough time to sit down with the SF5 beta and test the input lag on it. If I can get time, I’ll do it. I’m pretty sure the beta didn’t have this input lag because I was able to block dhalsim’s teleport mixups way easier in the beta.

Its not hard for them to remove all that artificial input lag, for sure. Its hard for them to make the online to work after doing that once this artificial lag seems to be in the game in order to make it feel ok when played online. Its also hard for them to re-balance the whole game with the new input lag in mind.

No rebalance is necessary. We’re not even to the stage where the game has been fully figured out, and once it has, like, a year from now they can patch accordingly.

As far as online play. It’s never going to be as crisp as offline, whether you use GGPO or if everyone has great connections and no wifi. That’s just nature of the beast. Online play will actually become better, automatically once the input lag is addressed.

Right now people on PC with the right drivers or whatever to enable the 4 frame lag reduction have a MASSIVE advantage over those on stock or PS4. And no matter what, even with things as they are now, there is an adjustment going from online to offline, it’s always been that way and it’s that way now and will be that way once this is fixed. Which according to what I’ve heard, it is. Thank God.

Wow. This says it all.

Lucky MK players…Lucky ANYONE but SF players!

Well oh well. Who gives a shit? Give us a game that plays good. It’s going to be rebalanced anyways over time.

Once input lag is reduced, a lot of players like Alex and Zangief will actually be good. Can’t wait.

Plus, you’re wrong. 3rd Strike was 3rd Strike even on the original Xbox under 120MS of lag conditions. You just couldn’t parry for jack shit and had to deal with lag tactics. The frame data is out there, the only thing that changes is that the game will feel MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH fucking better, organic, it’ll be Street Fighter again.

Let’s really hold their feet to the fire and get MKX level at least. Wow under 2 frames, that would be a dream come true! That alone would rekindle my interest in the game big time!

We all assume that the input lag is part of the buffer for the sake of online play

Sorry if I’ve missed this but has anyone confirmed that this is actually the case? E.g. if I’m playing with someone close, let’s say a 50 ms(aka 3 frame) ping between us, do I feel the exact same 8f “total” input lag?

That’s a good question, and honestly I think that’s just a theory. If someone could confirm your question it would answer the theory.

Online play is never going to be offline quality. It’s not with SFV, regardless of input delay. Online play in general is up to a decent standard and has been for a while across video gaming. And actually, improving offline latency should IMPROVE online latency. It’s not a good idea to gimp offline for the sake of online regardless. Nobody takes offline play seriously like they do offline and tournaments nor should they. SF is not the exception to the rule that is across every other fighting game on the market.

Agreed. Also I felt it was easier using Laura’s AA and Chun’s b+hk was way more consistent.

I had a dream that James Chen did a stream and said that Capcom was aware of the situation and was gonna bring it down to 5 frames.

I dont know wtf.:lol:

I’d like to see it at 2 frames like MKX and SkullGirls.

I’d love to see the transition to this for players who are essentially pressing random buttons in neutral thinking that works.

I can’t play this lag fighter stuff. I detested Xbox Live, the original Xbox Live when you’d have 100-130MS connections. That’s a yellow or even orange connection, and it was awful. People mashing garbage, shit that would never work offline, just all over you with bullshit you can’t react to or do a thing about. People say it promotes an offensive style. No, it promotes a choreographed style of just doing a bunch of stuff ahead of time until something hits. “lag tactics”.

We put up with it because online play was new, it was new and this was the best you could get, and offline it was perfect so no worries. Then GGPO came around, designed for this reason to reduce input delay.

I think there’s a reason Daigo hasn’t been doing well. He’s not over the hill at what, 33. Come on, professional sports stars play until their 40, it’s not that. It’s because you can’t react in this game. Take that away from Daigo and he’s getting beat. Understandably. I’m not a Daigo fanboy I’m just calling it like I see it.

I don’t know how anyone puts up with this in a Street Fighter game. I don’t just play Street Fighter I play Pinball and I play STG’s or Shooters, 2D shooters sometimes called “shmups”. I used to tell people how close these three genre’s were infsofar as reaction time, speed, the organic and fun feel. If there was lag in a pinball or shooter forget it, and fighting games are no different though I guess now Street Fighter is because…?

It’s just a shame and what’s worse is this idea that if you speak out about it like Snake Eyes did that you’re making excuses or something. Give me a break. And I’ll call out pro’s who say nothing, they should have come to Snake Eyes defense, and we’d have a better game. Instead they just cower to the fear of memes or being made fun of. I don’t get it. Cowards, cowards and substandards all around. I don’t know how anyone enjoys this game it’s an absolute chore to play, not enjoyable at all.

SFIV was far from perfect, I always wondered why it too felt stiff now I know, it too has bad lag. Far less than V, but it’s still double the standard of other fighting games. I just don’t get it, they can’t be this stupid, meaning it was intentional and the player base is so stupid they think that if you talk about this you’re “being negative” or your offending them cause you’re ripping on their favorite game and company. No, fuck that, I love Capcom and SFV, and I’m talking about this because it’s something that can be fixed needs to be fixed so the game is better.

“8 frames” has become a meme and call me an old timer at 29 if you wish, but I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing if they’re making fun of me or Capcom but this dumbed down Idiocracy generation it’s probably the latter.

I tried to play Zangief who I think has 5 frame startup on his throws, which is another very odd thing. It was like playing “future fighter”. Where your inputs from the past dictate what happens in the future lol. I can’t even put into words, it sucks. There how about that. It sucks and it’s shit. Pardon my French.

What “standard” are you talking about? Super Turbo has more than 2 frames of delay, lol. Please tell me ST feels stiff so I can have a laugh. If Skullgirls and MKX are the “standard” then LOL I will stick to games that don’t blow, thanks anyway.

But don’t let me stop you, keep pretending your magical FGC senses allow you to FEEL individual frames.

I’m talking about input delay response times. The picture showing the delay in MKX compared to SFIV and V is on page 1 and 2, as is the video analysis. I’m not reposting it.

I am not talking about the quality of the games. I too think MK sucks and SkullGirls isn’t my cup of tea, but the point is they are responsive. I haven’t played ST in over 10 years and was never much of an ST player to begin with so I can’t comment. Street Fighter Alpha 2 and 3rd Strike don’t have 5 frames of input delay. Red Parrys in 3S have a 3 frame window so if there was a 5 frame delay they’d be impossible to do. Home ports definitely have added lag of a frame or 2 as in the arcades I can red parry consistently.

4 frames of lag should be the absolute worst case acceptable level. I’d prefer 2 like in SHITTY GAMES like MKX and SkankGirls and Smash. The less lag the better. Reacting is fun.

double post

Might as well use the space since I can’t delete it.

There’s nothing to discuss or argue IMO. What we need to do is campaign on Twitter and Facebook to @TheComboFiend and @Capcom Fighters and so forth so this is fixed. Honestly I have no idea how people enjoy the game as is, it’s disgusting.

@Eternal , maybe you could answer this: Someone told me that the 8 frames of “lag” was intentional and in fact needed because of the netcode. That would mean that it would be a difficult thing to fix, because the netcode wouldn’t handle a lower “input lag”.

Is this bs true?

If it was unintentional it’d be harder to fix than intentional I believe. I’m not a super good coder so don’t believe me for sure. However it has been noted by pro coders that it appears the way that the online rollback code is being handled for SFV is setup wrong anyway so I think the point is moot. Even if they changed the input delay the online wouldn’t be setup right.

Keep in mind that without v-sync the PC version has IIRC ~2F less input delay but still plays online fine.

Skullgirls showed me that it is possible. That is my new standard when it comes to netcode.