Or it shows how much Sako’s footsies and reactions improved over the years. Take a look back at his Cammy and you will see that his footsies and mind games were no where near the level that there at now. He is honestly one of the best in Japan, if you want to admit it or not. Don’t get me wrong Ibuki’s normals are very good but you also have to take into account that a lot of players really don’t know how strong ibuki’s footsies really are because it’s rare to fight a good Ibuki even in Japan. So even top players will make an occasional mistake on the walking frame trap that is Ibuki and lose for it.
To be honest I still don’t get why people consider her mid tier? She has great normals, space control, frame traps, mixups, broken wake up game, high damage and can be played in a variety of ways? C’mon she honestly only has like 2 or 3 bad match ups!
Great normals? Depends on what you mean and what you’re comparing it to. Subjective. Space control? Kind of. Frame traps? Yes. But everybody in the cast has frame traps… Mixups? Sure, but kind of gimmicky imo. Broken wake up game? Only if it worked on everyone at all times. High damage? If you have the execution, plus most of her combos are incredibly character specific. I cannot think of any other character who has to worry so much about who their opponent is and if they’re standing or crouching as well as spacing. Can be played in a variety of ways? You could say the same for most characters. Only 2 or 3 bad matchups? I’d say she has at the very least, 5 bad matchups imo. Not necessarily as bad as Bipson, but not even either.
I don’t find it that bad, slightly in Ibuki’s favor in fact. Ryu really has no real option to control any space. He can’t risk throwing a fireball without fear of eating an EX neckbreaker, or U2. His only real tool is cr.mk, and its rather predictable, and not difficult to counter. Use cr.mk, cr.hk, or f+lk to punish it. Once you land the knockdown, Ryu is susceptible to all sorts of offensive mixups from Ibuki, whereas Ryu can’t really do the same to Ibuki. It can be difficult to land the knockdown against talented Ryus, but once you do, you’re likely to do a good chunk of damage off of one untech knockdown.
first of all sako’s footsies has always been damn good, matter of fact id argue that it was at its peak during his vampire saviour days, so i find it funny when you say that his footsies have improved drastically thanks to street fighter 4 of all the games in the last year lol. for your argument’s sake, even if sako’s footsies have indeed improved in the last year, it isnt very apparent in the video(it looks just as good then) and it definitely cant be the reason to go from loosing out to ryan hart’s ryu badly to thrashing daigo’s ryu badly.
ibuki in vanilla ssf4 was rigid, she couldnt freely rush upto mid crmk range and do a crlp stmk and expect the stmk to connect every time, her then slower stmk was extremely difficult to use for whiff punishing ryu’s crmk(which means stmp stmk was also an impractical link), comboing from her overhead always was a 50-50 when not upclose, her stlk stmk tc was not very good and most importantly, her crhk was nowhere near as threatening as it is right now thanks to the sthk tc combo follow up, its really really good! when was the last time in recent times you’ve seen a good ibuki player get punished for getting their crhk blocked at inside crmk range? another standing reason why shotos cannot freely harass you with crmks anymore, you can just as freely throw out your sweep.
let me make it even more simple, if you’ve got a really good ryu player that you play against regularly, play a vanilla ssf4 set with him and see how much more difficult it is to go up against him even with the new setups that you now know that also works in vanilla.
and btw bison is not a bad matchup for ibuki, if you’re patient and good at blocking, and if youve always been used to playing characters with inferior footsies against bison, you wont find it very hard.
Maybe luck was on Ryan’s side? Maybe Daigo hasn’t gotten back into the groove yet with his Ryu? (eg: see those dropped combos in the Daigo vs Fuudo match) Maybe Sako has simply gotten better since last he played Super Ibuki 2 years ago?
Does 1f really make that much of a difference?? Stop being a sissy and learn your 1f links.
I also find it funny that at 6f startup, st.MK is “extremely difficult to use for whiff punishing” but at 5f startup, suddenly it is a lot easier/doable?
Why is it a 50/50?
I dunno why you think it’s still any good now.
You mean that gimmicky TC10 shit? Which whiffs if they crouch, just like Akuma’s far.st.HK and puts you at near point blank range for your opponent to do any whiff punish they want?
There’s pretty much no way you’re going to be hitconfirming your sweep. Either you commit to the sweep or you do the full TC10.
I don’t feel like there’s really that much of a difference between Super Ibuki and 2012 Ibuki. It’s a damage nerf tradeoff for some pointless buffs, catering to those who cannot 1f link or figure out how to frame trap with st.MP.
the subject of one frame links is not as simple as you make it out to be and its practicality depends on several points.
do you know that there are 2 types of one frame links? one is where the active frame of the move preceding the one frame link is long(lk tsumuji to stlp) and one where the active frame of the move preceding the one frame link is short(sf4 vega’s crlp crlp, cr lp crlk etc), here the former is a lot more easier to pull of than the latter even though you’ve got the same frame window to hit the link(which is 1f). also, the more deeper the one frame link is in the combo, the easier it is to get the rthym of the move down. so its not very practical if the very first link after a connected normal with a short active frame is a one frame link, which is exactly what crlp stmk used to be.
so what im trying to say is that no one can rush into mid crmk range with ibuki and randomly throw out a crlp stmk and expect it to connect everytime(which we all do now) if it is a one frame link.(notice how im not talking about hitconfirming a crlp crlp stmk combo which was definitely possible with practice)
a one frame + is a huge difference for whiff punishing, especially for a move with such a big hitbox and considerable active frames. again, try using stmk in vanilla and let me know if it works just as well.
comboing the overhead when not up close was always a 50 50 since forward mk crlp stmk is the only way to get a non lk tsumuji ender combo in, but now thanks to stlk being faster, you could always make sure that a connected stmk is converted into a combo. not a big difference here but she definitely loses a bit of rigidity in this area.
TC10 cannot be hitconfirmed, but you would definitely know wether or not the followthrough would connect based on the range you are at. if it isnt for the tc10, ibuki still wouldnt have an option against crmk even at mid crmk distance. so now if you make your opponent understand that youve got a crhk which can be made safe with the sthk at mid crmk range, your opponent would not hold that position and try to crmk, instead he would walk forward or backwards. for example, yesterday daigo knew that ibuki has a respectable tool at mid crmk range that would beat out his crmk, this is the reason why he never held this position like he did against momochi in their early ssf4 gods garden set.
Im saying this again, ibuki ryu was a 7:3 by the end of vanilla sf4 its now a 6:4 matchup in ibuki’s favour only because of her stmk and the fact that crlp stmk by itself can be landed on the fly.
also its a bit strange to see that the board has completely forgotten the situation in 2010.
ibuki was considered an unviable single dimensional character with a lot of bad matchups remember?time when silly philosophies like akuma is ibuki with more tools and stuff like that sprouting up.
mingo i even remember you saying the matchup is difficult for ibuki and that even you can give any ibuki a hard time with your ryu.
ibuki is definitely a great char now, which she wasnt back then. and when i say that ibuki is mid tier, i meant that in this version of ssf4 which is more or less balanced, shes not part of the 2 or 3 characters who can be considered high tier. i dont think theres an s tier at work here.
I can’t believe that there are people in this world saying that Bison is not a bad matchup for Ibuki.
Having an unblockable on him does not automatically lead to victory… Just tell me why Bison is not a bad matchup so I can thinkg about it. Bison has probably the best tools in the cast to totally outzone Ibuki and prevent her from doing anything. This leads Ibuki to be forced to play patient and on reaction but hey, LK scissor kicks is extremely safe (unless you react on frame and catch it with Raida lol). So I have to know what I missed
BTW Niko, what kind of safe jumps do you know against Ryu except the unblockable? Does neckbreaker - cr.MP - j.LK still work?
if you’re one for stats, the dictator player isy1983(or something) was comprehensively beaten by sako during both the china cup tournament and in casuals. also according to kim the dictator player, the matchup is fairly even( he even mentioned having a lot of problems against iyo, posting a match where he lost against the guy). Also in the arcade stats that’s being posted by eventhubs every now and then, iyo seems to be consistently beating all of the top dictator players in sets.
without saying much i’ll just say this, unblockables, setups and other gimmicky crap will not warrant you a win over someone who understands the game better than you nor would it change anything in a matchup that is otherwise bad. so bringing in talk about unblockables and all of that everytime when there is a matchup argument going on is just absurd. bison is a fundamental character, block and play patient, you saying that youre trying to do something about his lk scissors kick being safe says that your philosophy behind playing this matchup is all wrong.when bison does lk scissors, not just ibuki, but almost every other character has to block. lk scissors is what his game is built around. hes also an escape artist yes, so on his knockdown, once you condition him not to do wakeup ex psycho crushers using os exkazegiri, you could start doing os cds that would help you beat out every other option he’s got.
I never used st.MK in Super and even after the 1f buff I still never use st.MK in AE or 2012. It has always been more of a combo buff than whiff punish buff, especially when her cr.HK has been and still is her go-to whiff punisher.
Again with the 1f links? I take it you’re afraid of Tsumuji looping as well. I always use cr.LK xx EX Tsumuji anyways.
"Ibuki still wouldn’t have an option against cr.MK"
How is cr.HK by itself not a good enough option?
4.1. "youve got a cr.HK which can be made safe"
Since you cannot hitconfirm the cr.HK into TC10, how exactly do you plan on keeping cr.HK safe? I already said TC10 whiffs on as many crouchers as Akuma’s far.st.HK. Do not comprehend.
4.2. "like he did against momochi in their early ssf4 gods garden set."
Wtf lol wasn’t this Super SF4? Yesterday as in 2 years ago? Well to be exact, 1.5 years ago (June 2010).
3-7 to 6-4 is a HUGE freaking difference. Do you even know what you’re saying? That’s like saying Bipson vs Super Guile turned into Bipson vs Super Hakan or some shit. And your entire reasoning is a 1f buff on her st.MK so that wimps can do combos easier (not to mention Sako has no problem doing any and every 1f link).
Maybe it was popular opinion that Ibuki was a midtier character with lots of bad matchups, but I never believed she had many. Her only real hard matchup was Bipson and possibly Super Cammy, and slightly unfavored were Chun and Boxer. Guile was a clear win for Ibuki, and Honda was about 5-5. Besides the top 5 charge characters (remember Charge Fighter 4?), there wasn’t really anybody else to watch for/worry about.
Unblockables, especially easy to do unblockables, changes things. Hell, even without unblockables, Ibuki’s vortex simply rapes Ryu. He cannot do shit to get out, not even purposely juggle with jab dp in Super or purposely juggle with fierce dp in AE. In 2012 he has to stand there and take it like a man.
I’m guessing you forgot the fact that Super Bipson could punish option select EX kazegiri with U2, back when his retarded ultra was qcf motion. But even then, you’re basically forced to guess which option select to do (with one of your options costing meter…) with very little reward. Considering the fact that Ibuki’s neckbreaker has been nerfed, there’s a lot more incentive to just pick an escape option and hope for the best rather than try and block any incoming mixups (ie: Sako vs Tokido @Topanga League Round 1). Lastly, after 2 iterations they still haven’t fixed Ibuki’s fucking retarded TC4, so good luck being able to consistently get damage off your combos vs a crouching Bipson.
Oni gets scarier and scarier with each passing day. Any idea what his frame advantage is on that thing? It looks like it would at a slight frame disadvantage, but difficult to block if you’re not trained to do so.
It’s supposedly -9 on block lol. Damn if it’s that bad, maybe we can just U2 his ass, but I suspect the pushback will be too much, especially if the Oni player knows how to space it properly.
I think it changes when he FADCs out of it though. It doesn’t appear to be -9 when he focuses out of it. Or maybe the animation is just very misleading.