I thought that crossup problem was common knowledge with Ryu already. Same shit happens with Evil Ryu.
Yeah but it’s never been documented like the other info.
I’ve been having a lot of trouble with Akuma, both in Super and in AE. It feels like his normals beat me on the ground so I can’t get in close to frame trap, c.MP and c.HK in particular, and his demon flips rapes all keepaway (Especially with the AE nerf), and he gets out of the vortex free. I can’t tell how I should approach my offense against him, when I go for the frame traps he can teleport away, uppercut them, or back up and then get me back in c.MP and c.HK range again.
Do y’all have any advice on this match? I feel like it’s my current worst matchup next to Rufus.
I can shed some light on that matchup. I have a good local Akuma that I play with quite a bit.
Footsies range, you’re basically looking at Akuma’s cr.MP, cr.MK, and cr.HK, though mostly cr.HK, because it’s his primary way of knocking you down, and then getting you into his vortex. As Ibuki I’d recommend cr.MP and f+LK, and maybe st.MK as a whiff punisher in place of f+LK. That’s pretty much all you need; maybe sweep too but unless you need the range, st.MK starts up faster, is a lot safer on block and whiff, and nets more dmg/stun when you combo into neckbreaker/tsumuji. cr.MP is good to keep Akuma honest about his walk speed, so he doesn’t walk too far into your zone, like walkup throw. f+LK is generally your goto low punisher, though you will have to watch for Akuma’s own cr.MP whiff punisher. Akuma will mostly use cr.MK for cr.MK xx fireball, but since it doesn’t actually knock you down, you don’t really have to fear it much until he gets meter.
Of course, this is all assuming you have already shown him you can reaction punish fireballs easily, very easily. EX neckbreaker and take your unblockable setup. Or slide to gain positioning or U2 (not recommended unless you are on point with spacing, because it’s such a stupid ultra in terms of hitboxes). Before Akuma gets U1, feel free to spam FA if you notice he is cr.HK happy like a flowchart Boxer.
Small footsies trick: if you notice Akuma using cr.HK as a whiff punisher against cr.MP, you can try and test his reactions by whiffing other normals, specifically f+MK or f+HK, which will go right over his whiffed cr.HK, and then leaving him open for an easy whiff punish. I caught my Akuma friend a few times with it so thought I might share.
There is really not point in playing keepaway; even taking into consideration Super Ibuki, a good Akuma would just absorb the kunai and talk the free screen space you give him. Then when you’re in the corner, Akuma’s vortex options are amplified (see Tokido’s ambiguous corner crossup). There’s also not much reason for Akuma to play keepaway either. If he’s intent to jump back and throw fireballs, you have lots of options. You can make a read and jump/superjump, you can reaction EX neckbreaker, or what I do most, simply absorb the fireball and backdash. If he wants to give you free ultra, I’d gladly take it. Once you get U2 stocked, he cannot cr.HK anymore until he gets his own U1 stocked. Again, just be careful of the spacing when you use U2.
Akuma doesn’t get out of the vortex for free. Learn to reaction neckbreaker. Preferably you’ll want to also react to which direction he teleports, but at the very least you should catch him half the time if you simply keep that neckbreaker ready.
Something I’ve been meaning to test is j.LK/j.MK option select mp.neckbreaker (whiff) then cr.HK or something. Since often times option select hp.neckbreaker will whiff unless delayed a bit.
If you’re not already, I’d recommend learning Ibuki’s tsumuji loop to boost some damage. TC4 xx Neckbreaker only does about 250dmg. st.MP , st.MK xx tsumuji loop will net you about 340dmg, and more stun (very important). Since Akuma has very low stun, 2 vortex loops will pretty much stun him if you go for tsumuji loop combos.
And since Ibuki can rack up some serious momentum with her own vortex, keeping Akuma from regen-ing his stun shouldn’t be too difficult unless he takes a risk, such as dp, backdash, teleport, etc. And if you happen to read one of those, he’s going to eat big damage/stun and be put back into the vortex.
I’d also recommend learning Ibuki’s unblockable after EX neckbreaker, if you haven’t mastered it already. It’ll help a lot in this matchup.
Any tips on the Cammy match? I’m pretty new to Ibuki and it looks like the link in the cammy spoiler didn’t survive the forum upgrade.
Rahontsiiostha, when do you play on updating the op?
Has anybody noticed some quirky things happen when going for launcher resets? Such as TC6 and cl.st.HK.
I feel the need to share my observations thus far:
Things every veteran Ibuki should know by now:
TC6 xx SJC lk.cd never crosses under
TC6 xx SJC mk.cd usually doesn’t cross under
TC6 xx SJC hk.cd almost always crosses under
After TC6 xx SJC mk.cd, Ibuki is in range for far.st.LP, unless she walks forward first.
After TC6 xx SJC mk.cd, Ibuki is in range for cl.st.LP.
Whichever SJC cd she does, she will always recover before her opponent. If st.LP is done too early, it’ll whiff because the opponent hasn’t landed yet.
cl.st.HK xx SJC lk.cd , cr.HP xx SJC hk.cd almost always crosses under.
Things not every Ibuki knows:
TC6 xx SJC hk.cd can cross under or not cross under with certain characters. I’m not sure how it depends, but if we take advantage of it, we can make launcher resets really really hard to see. These characters include (so far, I haven’t tested everybody, just going by matchup experience):** Makoto, Gen, Sakura, Guy**. I’m thinking it could be a timing thing, dependent on when you SJC into cd, but I could be wrong.
Same as above, but instead use mk.cd, on Honda. I have not noticed it on any other character so far.
TC6 xx SJC hk.cd can cross under or not with certain large characters and Ibuki crouching after doing command dash. These characters include (so far) Abel, THawk, Gouken. At first I thought Ibuki had to whiff a crouching normal to lower her hitbox, like cr.LK or cr.MK. But then I realized that simply crouching is good enough.
cl.st.HK xx SJC lk.cd , cr.HP whiffs on Guy. Use SJC mk.cd instead. Tighter link, but different spacing so cr.HP won’t whiff.
cl.st.HK xx SJC lk.cd , cr.HP xx SJC mk.cd can cross under or not on C.Viper, Gouken, Dudley, probably many others. I have done very little mk.cd since I initially deemed the inconsistency to be an annoyance, and decided to use hk.cd all the time instead. Now I realize it can be a pretty powerful reset tool if mastered. It’s the same kind of deal with the launcher cross unders, but this is one is a lot easier to control. Basically, it depends on when you SJC mk.cd.
Early SJC mk.cd = cross under
Late SJC mk.cd = fake cross under
I cannot seem to ever TC6 xx SJC hk.cd cross under on Dudley and Seth. Still a good fake though imo. With Seth, after hk.cd you’re actually in range for cl.st.LP.
I think it’s safe to say that mastering Ibuki requires more character specific knowledge than anybody else in the cast.
Lastly, not character specific, but while TC6/TC8 are true blockstrings, they can still catch people not blocking low when you go for the cr.HK part. Good for catching people blindly mashing dp during your strings and it’ll mindfuck them when they get hit instead of their mashed dp coming out. I’m sure we all noticed this when we put the training dummy on random block, and they’d block the st.LP xx st.MP but not the cr.HK for some odd reason.
I actually do the fake cross up by delaying cr lk on big guys all the time. Pretty useful till they start mashing SPD.
Just found this:
[media=youtube]7xL3E5_JO8Q[/media]
A really stupid Elf unblockable vs Ibuki. It seems the only ways to get out is walk forward (into Elf) or jump. You can mash backdash, but if he spams that f+MK move he will still catch up to you. It’s meant to be an overhead, but as you can see it still hits Ibuki even if she stand blocks.
Some interesting tech most of us saw Latif use against Tokido to punish teleports: option select SJ. For some reason I never thought of trying it as an option select with Ibuki.
This will require some experimenting.
So I tested with the SJ a bit and I don’t think Ibuki can SJ fast enough to hit Akuma with j.HP. Not with an option select anyways; it has to be a pure read.
Anyways, so I was playing this flowchart Ken today and I noticed he kept crossing me up on wakeup, despite not looking like a crossup at all. Re watched the replay and took it to training mode. Turns out after a HP srk, if Ken jumps at you, he has 3 options:
j.MK = will always cross up and always hit you no matter what
j.HP = will not cross up, but can whiff if you wake up and don’t block
j.HK = will cross up, but can whiff if you wake up and don’t block
I’m sure Ken has more reliable setups than that, but it kind of caught me off guard. Also, it seems as long as you quick recover and he jumps at you after a hp srk, you can just dash or command dash under since it is not a meaty setup.
Would love to hear how you guys approach the Makoto match. Didn’t have any problems with her until recently and now I’m quite uncomfortable fighting her. I feel as though one bad read/missed AA or something along those lines and I’m blocking for most of the remainder of the round. It doesn’t help that Makoto hits like a tank and U1 hurts like hell. I can’t count the number of times I’m trying to apply pressure get caught by an EX karakusa, U1 and the whole match has completely turned around. Not to mention Makoto can take quite a beating and has tremendous comeback factor.
I would say it’s a game of who scores the knockdown first, but Ibuki’s ground game feels weaker (advice here would be great) and in the air Makoto has j.hp. After scoring a knockdown I also feel like one option to continue pressure is already taken away with any cross-up seemingly getting beat by her fukiage (upwards punch) followed by a combo. Makoto’s normals also makes it seem like after a knockdown she can continue her pressure much easier than Ibuki can.
Anyways, I’m a bit stumped on this matchup at the moment, so would appreciate any advice or a breakdown on the matchup.
Specifics regarding the following would be greatly appreciated:
- general game plan entering the match
- playing the ground game
- applying pressure after scoring your own knockdown
Thanks in advance. =)
When I played I used to do this match (Makoto vs. Ibuki) up all the time because my brother mained her. Probably more than any other Ibuki on this forum.
- Obtain frame-advantage/knockdown, and keep it for as long as possible.
- Basically you have to realise that apart from an Ultra, Makoto is free to frame-traps, tick-throws, and Okizeme because she doesn’t have a good defensive option. EX Oroshi is a very slow move that has hardly any invincibility frames.
- You’ll want to keep at a good distance away from Makoto, and keep her from getting in.
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Makoto in AE can easily close in the distance now that her dashes are very fast, and her Tsurugi (Axe Kick) is also very good for taking baby-steps. You used to be able to focus her EX Hayate in Super, but in AE it breaks it. Now, you have to OS a cr.MP or st.MK (ect.) with Neckbreaker/Tsumuji if you want to punish their attempts at dashing across the screen.
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This is the main difference from Super to AE, and probably why you’re having problems now. With Makoto’s health boost and increased speed, Ibuki has to do more work. If Makoto starts a combo onto Ibuki, consider the match almost over.
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You don’t want to read Makoto’s jumps with an air-throw or j.HK because of how much priority EX Tsurugi and j.HP have. Instead try to space yourself in response to the jump so that you can obtain frame-advantage on the ground.
- Pressure Makoto without fear.
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As stated before, EX Oroshi isn’t a good reversal. Apply pressure as you would other characters, feel free to mix it up more with Kasumi Gake and her Overhead more often. If you do nothing on Makoto’s wake-up with a little space between both of you, Makoto can’t walk fast enough to grab you before you react. The most effective moves I use is from kara-throw distance: [cr.MK, f+LK xx Tsumuji] or [cr.MP xx LK Kasumi Gake], or simply kara-throw.
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More importantly, jumping in at Makoto may be very bad if she has time to use a Fukiage (which will cost you around ~35% of your health after a combo. However, because of her bad reversal, jumping in with j.LK (for a cross-up) still lets you have pressure afterward.
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In terms of Makoto pressuring you, give Makoto a go and learn her options. Know when a Command Grab would miss, or wouldn’t be meaty (so you can throw her out of it). A good Makoto player would destroy another (with Ibuki) in Super. And in AE, with a little bit more work, you can win.
----> 100% vs. Makoto online
- Makoto can’t EX Karakusa your overhead, or a low Kunai. If you backdash or jump, you can punish it very good with an Ultra Combo.
** Besides [Abare Tosunami] Makoto cannot escape the the Kunai Vortex without risking another knockdown (like after an FADC). You can be very creative with your mix-ups against Makoto.
Just wondering: what do you people think is Ibuki’s easiest or most straightforward matchup?
Most straight-forward is probably vs. Makoto.
Easiest is either Dudley or T.Hawk (only because Ibuki wins in footsies, and they have no elaborate escapes from her mix-ups).
I don’t know about T. Hawk. Maybe it’s just me but I have a lot of trouble against a good T. Hawk. The only one I play against is Hungbee though but he’s really good.
Maybe haha. Only reason I say this is because what I’ve practiced even keeps Ryan zoned out. st.LK is amazing in this match-up, and because T.Hawk dare not to ever Condor Dive, and can’t escape the vortex in any way, he’s the easiest grappler atleast.
Just be careful of how he spaces his condor dives and spires; some will purposefully land in front of you to do a 360 grab. Oh yea, and watch out for the ones that mash 360 if you’re attacking, and he’s blocking- Ibuki can’t afford to take grappler damage lol.
You can time st.LP so that if it whiffs, it comes out to hit him, and if you block, nothing comes out (so you can punish with Neckbreaker). For Condor Spires, that’s what st.LK is for…
i agree with other people that ibukis most straight forward matchup is probably dudley. other matchups that she just seems to win till you get to really good players are sagat and guile.
-dime