So turtle back! Lk tsumuji, cr. Strong, and cr. forward beat his dash punches. Wait for him to make the mistake and adjust your play style instead of it bring the other way around.
Sent from my Thunderbolt
Yeah turtle Boxer is stupidly hard to play against. But this is just a case of playing the player. See what he does at certain ranges: full screen, midscreen, just outside cr.HK range, inside cr.HK range, etc. Test his reactions with neutral jump/superjump (just outside of headbutt range of course), and SJ j.LK (notice I say super jump because normal jump will just get you swat out of the air with cr.HP or headbutt. With a well aimed SJ j.LK you should be able to avoid his cr.HP hitbox, forcing him to react accordingly to your jump with a different antiair). Test his footsies with dash up gimmicks, and FA fishing for cr.HK. You only need one opening, one chance to get in, and from there you just go to town.
Footsies: mash cr.LP for anticipated dashes gets beat by cr.HK, and somewhat loses to cr.MP. cr.HK spam loses to FA, reaction sweep/raida (if your reactions are good), and SJ j.LK (he will not have time to recover and antiair properly). If he jumps back/walks back, take the space and push him to the corner (where SJ j.LK is even more effective). Always whiff stuff like far.st.LP and maybe far.st.MP when outside his cr.HK range, to stuff any dash punches, or you could just neutral jump, but that move is a little bit more committed. If your reactions are good enough you can just slide or raida on reaction. At certain spacing though, you can just block dash punches and punish with far.st.LP (1f link) into knockdown. For reference, see Sako at WNF.
I have not had much success with LK tsumuji. Slow startup and recovery, and will often trade or lose to cr.HK if he’s spamming it, which is not what you want.
Of course, if you have the life lead, then don’t bother with any of these risks. Just turtle it out yourself and wait for him to drop his charge before doing anything.
hi guys I’m having alot of trouble with Elf. I fought one today and he was all over the place. I didn’t know where to start hitting him. Any tips or suggestions?
I have not fought an El Fuerte in a long ass time, but from what I can remember with my matches against Vigilante (best Elf on east coast imo):
The first thing you should do is stay calm and do not panic when Elf vortexes you. The damage output on it is pathetic, and relies more on frustrating or flustering the opponent into making big mistakes and paving the way for real combos (namely, RSF). Against a good Elf, you definitely do not want to make huge mistakes or they’re just going to RSF you to death. Other than RSF, Elf has no real way of getting big damage on you, thanks to the AE damage nerf on his retarded U2.
Now, onto Elf’s vortex. He’s basically going to do one of four things:
- run cancelled into tostada (may or may not crossup; always hits high)
- run cancelled into tortilla (basically a grab)
- run stop cr.HK (his slide; hits low, good to punish backdashes and works well as a safe meaty, since it is -1 on block; if you block it, 99% of the time Elf is going for a tick throw)
- run stop (to bait you into doing something stupid like a mashed reversal so he can punish with U2)
Reacting to El Fuerte’s vortex is going to take a lot of experience. To master this matchup, or any matchup for that matter, I suggest you grab an offline friend that knows their character very well, and play like a ft100. At the bare minimum, you should be able to react to tostada/tortilla vs cr.HK. Obviously, both tostada and tortilla require Elf to be running and then be airborne with an obvious animation, whereas cr.HK he must stay on the ground. A good Elf will be able to pick up on your habits and adjust his vortex accordingly, but at least you’re forcing him to do that, and not just tostada spam all day.
Something to note is that only his tostada generates a techable knockdown. If you mixup whether or not you quick rise, you may throw of Elf’s timing and help you recognize his next move better and react/counter accordingly.
Punishing Elf’s Vortex:
Blocked Tostada = cr.HK or TC10 or U2 punish.
Tortilla = neutral jump come down with a combo like nj.MK , st.MK xx Neckbreaker (or tsumuji loop, if you’re at the right spacing)
Blocked cr.HK = U1 if you’re still good at it. Otherwise cl.st.LP is a good option if you can time it perfectly because Elf’s fastest normal is 4f, so more often than not he’ll just go for the tick throw, which cl.st.LP will beat if fast enough.
If you are really feeling yourself, you can FA dash away, or dash up and combo. This won’t work if he does tortilla (since it’ll just grab you) and it probably won’t work against cr.HK since he recovers fast. You can also backdash, but meaty cr.HK will beat it, and I believe crossup tostada will as well.
Oh yeah and if notice the Elf you’re playing is bad and isn’t timing his vortex as meaty, or close to meaty, then feel free to just command dash out. The emphasis is on you noticing the non-meaty vortex. If you just mash command dash just because you feel uncomfortable then you won’t learn anything.
Footsies:
If you thought Ibuki had the worst footsies in the game, think again. In my experience, Elf’s normals were so bad, my opponent opted to run/stop to stay out of footsie range at all costs. Good cr.MP usage is going to go a long way toward keeping Elf out.
Most Elfs are going to want to run stop and jump all over the place to change spacing, really quickly and at will. I have not yet figured out what Elf’s ideal spacing is in this matchup, or what all of that running is for except to make their opponent become impatient.
When you knockdown Elf, then you show him what a real vortex looks like. His only way to get out is EX dash, but if you mixup which side you land on, this will easily backfire on him. He can also get out with EX Guacamole (his antiair move) and U1/U2, but again if you mixup which side you land on, as well as mix in safe jumps, Elf would be wise not to do anything but block on wakeup. Something to watch out for though is wakeup EX dash into tostada/tortilla.
Lastly, with Elf’s low health (900hp) and average stun (1000stun), your general gameplan should be to maximize damage instead of stun combos.
5.5 - 4.5 Ibuki favored imo.
Has anybody ever noticed Sako does lp.neckbreaker when comboing? Is there any reason to this? I tested max range neckbreakers in training mode and they are all -13, no matter if blocked at the beginning or end of the active frames.
When comboing it shouldn’t matter at all which version you use (unless it’s ex). How can you even tell the difference?
Also vs oni you can’t ultra 2 through the early part of his fireball ultra. Cost me my 100% win rate vs him to find out. 
When you’ve played Ibuki enough, you can probably even tell which version raida she uses at certain ranges.
The only thing I can think of is that it has far less active frames, and little bit less recovery frames, making the move a lot less animated and thus the opponent less likely to punish. But I think this comes with the risk of not comboing because there’s more room for a gap between st.MK xx neckbreaker. Maybe this risk is low enough I suppose.
Can you point to a specific video?
I can’t see any reason it would matter still. It would never whiff. If you’re counter hit fishing and accidentally anti air with the normal sure, but not inside a combo.
Maybe he’s just more comfortable doing it with jab.
@41:00 tsumuji loop stun on Boxer.
@41:51 st.LP st.MK lp.Neckbreaker to punish badly spaced lp.Dash Punch
@42:40 same thing.
He does get better spacing for stun punish. I highly doubt that’s his reason though if there is one.
And yeah, your right. From that range it is noticeable he’s using lp.nb.
thanks so much mingo very useful info
Today is a bad day to be fighting Yang.
Yang unblockable vs Akuma, Cody, and Ibuki.
[media=youtube]wZd3cA5QygQ[/media]
Best not to get thrown into the corner.
cody has the same thing
Random things that might help AE Ibuki players:
-stop spamming vortex and be confident in your footsies and mind games.
-against the twins use raida when option selecting
-against gief know which normals you can punish. And abuse st. Jab, st. Mk, and f-hk.
-against fei long use agamen buffered into neck breaker to beat his rekkas and use agamen to beat chicken wing.
-against viper and balrog spam the shit out of cr. Forward. It basically nullifies most of there options
-against makoto you must adapt to the "player"and then mix them up. Don’t forget that she’s free to grabs and gets rushed down rather easily.
-In AE don’t be afraid to go for resets once in a while. this is a game that rewards offense so go for it!
Sent from my Thunderbolt
Raida what against the twins?
I don’t think that’s AE specific, lol. I wonder if you’re saying that like you’re expecting an influx in Ibuki players now that AE dropped lol.
Ohh yeah theres only like 5 of us, I forgot:p.
Well I figure most Ibuki’s os sweep or neck breaker. But that doesn’t always work against the twins. Plus raida will grab yang’s command dash
Sent from my Thunderbolt
I OS Neck Breaker against that faggot Yun, catches all his DPzzz. Better setup than raida also I think.
I OS U1 against Yang and whenever EX Raida comes out by mistake it seems like he just goes right passed it. I’m not gonna lie though, I haven’t really played against a lot of Yangs, and I really haven’t tested much out against him besides that U1 setup.
ok so dont know if this was posted in the AE thread… but its ALOT easier to superjump dash cancel from ibukis new target combo than off her old one. seems to have like 3 frames more leeway.
-dime
The HK HK Target Combo? When I was playing in the arcade the whole animation felt a little slower to me. I don’t really use that often but when I do I usually don’t have a problem SJC’ing into dash or whatever.
yeah the hk hk one as compared to the lmhh one. i just got AE in my bedroom for the first time and since im rusty since i can only play it a bit every 3 weeks before that… all my timings are off. thats when i noticed how butshit easy it is to do… literally almost unmissable. yep just did it again after 10 minutes of not playing and got it frst time… like clockwork…
i have to actually concentrate to hit the other one. but maybe im trippin…
-dime