Question for all: which is the better Ultra in terms of versatility, punishment, and practicality.
I was wondering because, based on my observations, Breathless is pretty much a Raging Demon with armor, delay, and canceling. In theory, Abel should be able to use it similar to how Akuma uses WotRD, but so far, most Abels I see tend not to.
So, I thought I’d ask. What’s the difference between the two, and what advantages does one have over the other?
Akuma’s ultra is probably better for punishing but breathless (brainless?) is a lot more versatile.
lmao Akuma forums stay with the stupid threads
breathless is a lot better. Akuma’s ultra is gimmicky… Abel’s breathless is not because it can be cancelled. Also it’s quicker, it has more start up frames. But much less active frames. So it’s even possible to catch some people off guard without having to set it up for anti-air/counter etc. easier to input at close range (you don’t run the risk of any stupid lp pokes, ruining your ultra setup like demon). And it doesn’t have any camp “1000 deaths in a instant” vocals to go with it either.
lk tatsu > close jab > KKZ God I loved that setup.
Wow… Please post next time you know what you are talking about.
what the fuck is karas talking about?
nigga needs to kill himself on the quick.
Breathless seems better because of how you can hold it and catch people who jump away, which I dont think raging demon can do, correct me if I’m wrong?
buffering raging demon into c.mk/c.hk is amazing for anti air. Keeps them from thinking twice in the 2nd round
Breathless is armoured so it doesn’t need this anyway.
Breathless is as brainless as his command grab.
Hold able
Cancel able
Very fast
Good distance
Its a grab
If anyone is going to complain that it only has 1 armor, just imagine it being invincible
But on one side Raging demon can be cancelled out of all normal attacks wich breathless can’t. So if akuma were zoning with for example st.HK then the situation would be safe if the demon where buffered. And if you have really good reflexes when the first hit of the st.hk (or the last) hits abel during breathless the demon should be countering breathless. So I think (for now) the demon is better.
Care to explain how his command grab is brainless? It’s a command grab just like any other and if your opponent isn’t an idiot it takes skill to land.
I think the only thing I can really add to this discussion is that in a few months you’ll probably find that Breathless will be used ALOT less than Soulless, which in my opinion is the much better Ultra due to it’s combo-ability the fact that it can go through any fireball. Other than that I can’t really say anymore because I don’t use Akuma enough to properly know when to use the Ultra and it’s strengths.
Edit: And frankly, even if Breathless is better in every way (which it seems to be), then so what? Abel has nowhere near the number of tools Akuma, and is just not at all as good overall. So Abel gets a better version of Akuma’s Ultra, good!
What exactly is wrong in what I said. Everything I said is the truth. Breathless is…
less gimmicky because of the cancel aspect. You’re taking less risks with Breathless. And I would go as far as to say if you’re good with Breathless. You can land it almost every round.
Easier to catch people off guard with than raging demon. Because it’s much quicker.
Easier to counter with. Breathless can work like a defensive focus attack. Raging demon can be hit out of much easier after its invincible startup frames.
Better than demon vs projectiles
List goes on really. It’s probably one of the best close to mid range ultras in the game.
Raging demon imo is rubbish. Vs any half decent opponent you’re not going to land it that often.
Suprisingly doing this has got me grabbed out og the demon like 6/6 times now. No idea why.
Well neither has invincibility but I guess Abel is in a crouching position when he’s in the middle of Breathless, so maybe that means Demon misses?
Don’t worry, you are right. Nu-skool doesn’t know what he’s talking about and he didn’t back anything up also.
i think the problem is that karas obviously doesn’t play akuma or doesn’t play him well if he thinks that akuma’s ultra is a gimmick. That is what got people calling him an idiot, not necessarily that they disagreed with breathless being better (i think).
First, there are about 5 characters where you will EVER land breathless against a good player if you start it on the ground not as a punish. And even against these characters you have to do it close enough that they can’t jump backwards out of it and far enough away that they can’t simply jump over you. Even fewer if they have meter/ultra/super. So basically its “random throw out” sucks just as much as akuma’s demon except against like geif and dudley. It CAN punish fireballs though (non-EX), but I don’t think it really is fair to say because Ultra 1 is going to be used in the only match-ups where that would really be an issue (ryu/sagat). Regardless, breathless, while still useless “random,” is better than the demon.
As a jump-in anti-air they are basically on point with eachother. Both get beaten by things like EX tatsu to change your trajectory and both will catch the jump-ins. Breathless gets a slight advantage in versatility and not giving the opponent meter (because it WILL catch a divekick) while the demon wins for damage. At long distance though, breathless wins because its a lot harder to land akuma’s demon as a long distance anti-air (though not impossible) while abel just has to worry about distance and trajectory change moves. As an anti-air, breathless is arguably better
As a punish they are basically the same, asking whether you’d rather have more damage and more meter given to the opponent, or less damage and less meter (I’d personally rather take the damage, but both are fine). But there are specific circumstance where akuma can punish and breathless cannot(5 frame start-up for akuma and 8 frame for abel). For example, Akuma can punish balrog’s sweep, abel cannot … so as a punish demon is arguably better.
The demon can be canceled from any normal, hit or no hit, which is something breathless cannot do. Abel can roll out of his normals though. That being said, demon as a counter to an FA is extremely useful. Demon wins, because breathless can’t do this at all.
So yea, they are very similar but they both do a good job of dealing with some of the character’s weaknesses. Akuma can’t roll out of pokes, so the demon is nice. Abel can’t teleport when he sees a divekick, so ultra 2 is nice. Akuma can do good damage on his own, so the SUPER damage it does is nice. Abel needs his opponent locked down and not jumping randomly, so the super armor is nice.
neither is a clearly better ultra (to say otherwise means you don’t know how to get out of breathless, play too many crappy people online, or don’t know how to use akuma’s demon as an anti-air). Soulless vs. Armageddon on the other-hand…
and yea, as an abel player I see soulless being a better ultra in a lot of the “high tier” character match-ups than breathless (ryu, sagat, akuma, guile, abel, rose, blanka, bison…)
I’m a “idiot” you say. No one else has said that but you. And you come onto these forums to defend Breathless. Saying “netiher is a clearly better ultra”… Who are you trying to kid here…
In fact I don’t even care that Abel got this ultra. Because it suits his character. He has not that great anti-air so let him have it. Akuma has plenty of anti air and mixup options. But if someone asks which is better I’m going to tell the truth. Not beat around the bush with 8 paragraph post saying not really much of anything. breathless is better. At least twice as better imo. It’s rock solid for anti air, demon requires very strong timing and can be hit out of. How does a descending enemy who has already jumped and is on way down, hit out of a +1 armor, 6 frame ultra. It’s good vs close range projectile pokes. It’s dangerous wake up option. Someone goes in for throw - breathless. Someone goes in for meaty - breathless. If they do armor breaking move they’re taking big risk.
Akuma ultra imo, depends on a bit of luck most of the time, even as anti air. Definitely can’t be comboed into anything like that. Doesn’t land at close range like the super. Yes you can cancel it out of moves, so what. If the opponent hasn’t committed to a move they just jump out of it. It’s not that great.
i wasn’t calling you an idiot, sorry if you decided to take it that way.
akuma’s ultra only depends on luck if you suck… no anti-air “depends on luck.” And armor breaks hit out of armor and some character can trajectory change while in midair. As for what you were saying about breathless and the demon… you sight things for the demon as being “bad” while sighting the same thing (against wake-up meaties and throws) as being good for breathless. If you think its better, cool, but until you say why what I said was wrong… you simply are incorrect.
this is a silly question though, so if you want to respond again then I’ll let you have the last word. Its all good, and didn’t mean to hurt your feelings.