it’s the only way to do it in training mode without the help of someone else. It helps you practice the timing for the meaty attack and whether you’re doing the OS correctly. I think that’s helpful enough. Just repeat the process of practicing it on record, then playing it back to see if you did it correctly.
The best I could get after about 20 mins in training mode was back throwing the back dash and auto correct EX falling sky coming out if I jumped over Abel but if I neutral jumped or jumped back nothing + srks were blocked after f.mk…
I’m going to try tomorrow though
The hardest part of this (godlike) OS is timing the throw to catch the back dash IMO… to get it to hit on frame 8 of a reversal back dash, means that after a blocked step kick (+1) you need to activate back throw on frame on his 6th back dash frame, which is 7 frames after you recover from your dash. Using this “math”, I set up Dummy Abel to do step kick xx dash, cr.mp (7 frames start up) using my normal step kick xx st.hp timing. This should give you some audio cues to work with - I just listened to the timing and tried tapping it out on an unplugged stick… this was the closest thing I could think of for 1 player training mode.
Signs of this thread turning into a trainer of organized merciless Abel players are beginning to emerge.
Mmmmm.
I actually used it alot in vanilla. I trained using it on human opponents actually. That OS still works wonders.
So , I was playing wolfkrone a bit and when viper tries to x-up burning kick you can time U2 to neglect the crossup and grab her when she lands… lol I think its because when you activate U2 abel hitbox moves back a bit.
Ill play him some more cause I wanna test out a bunch of stuff vs viper.
I’d like to see a video of this Ryu option select. It seems tricky enough that a video might help us understand the timing.
I also don’t really understand the EX FS option here. How are you going to be doing it fast enough to catch jumpers when the (whiffed) back throw is going to come out if Ryu jumps? If Ryu jumps backwards, you have to wait for the delay, the back throw whiff, and then EX FS will surely whiff at that point?
i think since its an OS, the back throw wont whiff if done properly, if they jumped, the throw wont come out but ex fs will instead.
The throw DOES come out, but because it recovers fast enough, EX FS comes out and catches jumps. If you were to perform the OS without actually hitting an opponent, you’d get whiffed step kick, whiffed throw and then whiffed EX FS.
ah okay, i guess i need to practice OS with another human player… anyway
so a cody player ive been playing with gave me some advice vs cody, he said that for cody’s jumpin okizeme, since j.mk isnt so good because after it a throw will beat a cr.lp, cody depends on heavy jump attacks to start their jumpin okizeme, therefore rolling is almost always the best thing to do as abel wakes up, of course anything too predictable will get baited and punish, that goes without saying…
well at least i think thats what he said(he mentioned some other stuff too but i forgot lol, need to check my inbox again later), my television is fucked up that it can get really hard to read japanese kanjis on screen :sad:
I find it hard to believe that the EX FS will grab people jumping away after both delaying a throw 6 or 7 frames, and then whiffing a throw completely…
Also, if this was grabbing someone as they were jumping, why would you use EX FS when you could just use LP FS which is 1f faster and uses no meter?
So assuming the EX FS is grabbing people on the way down, I think it’s weak, and there are much better habits you can teach yourself.
First of all, before even getting into alternatives, you have to be careful with autocorrects on recordings in training mode. Lets say you record the throw -> EX FS in training mode with Abel on 1P side. When you play it back, if you jump over him, the F and DF motions (which you originally inputted as right and down+right respectively) will remain as F and DF regardless of when you pass over him. If you pass over him before any of the inputs, this essential means the dummy plays back left, down, down+left, not right, down, down+right. If you pass over him in between the two inputs, he’ll effectively input right (with the dummy still on his right), down (the dummy passes over him), and then down+left (with the dummy now on his left). This means he gets the EX FS every single time.
For a human, autocorrecting only works if the game registers the full motion required, and then on the event of the button press, it determines the direction to perform the move. If you have someone jump over you while manually inputting this, and they jump over you in the middle of your inputting the motion, you could get something like right (your F), down (they jump over you), down+right (your DF motion) + PPP. This will give you EX TT, not EX FS.
I hope I explained that well 
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Anyway, besides that shortcoming of the inputs, there’s another reason why I don’t like this, which is I think you can easily do better. Most people attempt throws with the assumption they will land. Reform that habit: Assume the throw will whiff, and use the whiffed throw time to react to how they evaded, and punish it if possible. By preparing yourself for the throw to whiff, you’re ready to react to a possible backdash or vertical jump. “Worst-case scenario” is that they don’t evade the throw, or they tech it, and in either case, you have ample time to “react” to that, and do whatever you need/want to do.
For neutral jumps (and often jumps over you), your throw whiff will recover in time for you to cl.HP to anti-air them on the way down. The advantage of this, is that anti-airing with cl.HP generates Abel his most ambiguous mixups possible. Anti-airing someone high above with cl.HP xx LK Roll leaves you right under where they’re doing to land, and you can completely control to which side of you they will land on by walking slightly back towards where you were (or not), and/or crouching.
Here’s another reason why this habit is important: It strengthens your TT game. I’m sure anyone that plays Abel has had their TTs neutral jumped and punished. Most people don’t backdash them, they neutral jump them, and if you play against someone that neutral jumps a lot during your pressure, TTs can feel like they aren’t worth the risk.
This is the importance of normal throws for Abel, which a lot of Abel players overlook, which is ridiculous because normal throws are even stronger for Abel then most characters because people don’t try to tech against Abel, since TTs are throw invincible! Even if they start teching your normals throws, they’re setting themselves up to be TTed.
Once you realize someone is neutral jumping your TT setups, simply start doing your same setups, but use a normal throw instead. If they neutral jump, they get punished now. A smart player will recognize this, and start jumping back instead. Unless you have Breathless, you can’t really punish this, but it doesn’t matter, because the bottom line is once they start jumping back instead of up, attempting TTs has almost zero risk.
If you want to see a perfect example of this, check this out: http://www.option-select.com/watch/?v=236
It’s a vanilla match video, but that doesn’t matter, the concept obviously still applies.
At 0:04, I do a standard tick into TT. He neutral jumps it. I mentally note this.
At 0:17, I land a CH t.MK which I actually wanted to be blocked. I was thinking about how I was going to set him up for the neutral jump, and wasn’t thinking about the stepkick possibly hitting. After the step kick I delayed my followup slightly, looking for him to neutral jump. He doesn’t, so I tried short short -> TT, thinking he was actually going to block now, especially after getting hit with the CH t.MK. He neutral jumps again. Now I know for sure he’s going to hold up every time.
At 0:24, I purposely do a roll mixup that’s not that hard to block and tick into a normal throw. He neutral jumps and I punish with a cl.HP into a completely ambiguous mixup, which he eats.
At 0:31, I do the same tick again to see if I can get another free anti-air cl.HP, but he’s learned not to neutral jump and he jumps back this time. (Note: I should have reacted to the jump back with a dash forward to stay on top of him, but I took a stupid risk and jumped toward him which was terrible)
The rest of the match is just whatever, but it’s a pretty good watch 
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Anyway, I know this is kind of tangent to the OS you guys were talking about, but I think it’s extremely relevant, and something to think about. I’m all for awesome OSes (I mean shit, the name of my site is option-select), but at the same time, you have to stop looking for some kind of “magic” OS that does everything, because there are very very few OSes that have no holes and no down-sides.
Using this delayed t.MK -> delayed throw OS is great – if you read your opponent is going to DP you. But if you fall into the habit of using this OS constantly to prevent them from ever DPing, you’re going to be sacrificing your entire offense.
EDIT:
I wouldn’t wouldn’t say “it’s almost always the best thing.” In fact, I would say it’s rarely the best thing, because due to Abel’s reversals, it’s fairly safe to OS a throw with the jump in attack to easily beat a reversal EX Roll.
If the Cody is doing the normal safejumps against Abel that he uses for other characters, such as Back Throw -> hold up+forward, or HP CU, slightly delay, jump forward (and you tech), Abel can actually use reversal EX TT to avoid the jump in, and make Cody fall into the TT. Cody can easily slightly delay the jumps in both of these setups to avoid this (yet still OS a throw to cover a potential EX Roll), so as Abel, you need to be familiar with these setups to know whether he’s leaving himself open to that or not.
If you suspect (or know) that the Cody is using OS throw to cover your potential EX Roll, your best (and only) option (besides blocking of course), is to backdash, which will make the jump in whiff, and cause him to whiff his throw. If he whiffs the throw, Abel’s backdash actually recovers first, and fast enough to punish Cody’s whiff with a TT, or even c.HP, which gets both hits.
Only once you’ve gotten to that (advanced) point, where you’re punishing Cody for OSing a throw, and making him not OS the throw, does reversal EX Roll become a good option. Or of course, if you’re playing a low level Cody that doesn’t OS the throw to begin with.
ah i see, thanks for the info, appreciate it… i dont get to fight good cody players that much and it seems that the one im playing right now doesnt really use OS throw as part as his okizeme game…
and also mad props for the in depth explanation and abel tips, switch back to abel yo!
Yo… this nigga is the #1 poster on SRK period.
Son comes in, breaks down his point of view, provides video of a match that exemplifies the point so clearly it’s ridiculous (not to mention the match was sick anyway), then delivers the kind of you-guys-can-do-better-than-this closing that is usually a HAV exclusive. I like it.
I agree, pretty much. The EX FS part of this seemed like BS to begin with, but I still haven’t fucked around with it. I don’t see how you could possibly catch somebody on the way up, so it must be coming down, in which case, yeah… st. FP seems like the better option. Though, if you’re nice, you can use that as a bootleg ultra set up if you time the EX FS to trade, though this obviously is character/opponent dependent.
But yeah… definitely still a dirty little trick that can elicit some responses you can take advantage of if peppered in properly.
Anyway… it’s Sunday, I’m up early, and I feel good. As long as I don’t experience another random power outage, look for a major update today.
If there’s a move Abel players don’t use enough, it’s cl.HP as an anti-air. I really wish I could work this into my game, but it almost never occurs to me during a match. As a result, I don’t know how to really make the roll after cl.HP ambiguous. You say I should choose to walk backwards (or not) and crouch (or not)?
Also, in that video, I realized I also don’t do cr.jab, st.MP xx jab rekka. I almost always do cr.short, st.fierce xx fierce rekka, which I guess whiffs on Ryu if he’s crouching (?) and is a harder link. This was the combo you used after the cl.HP, roll reset. You chose to do this because a) the other combo whiffs on Ryu and b) all you care about is whether he’s blocking the right way, not whether he is ALSO blocking high/low correctly, right? I always want to do cr.short, st.fierce because it has the added benefit of catching them if they guess right, but block high (to guard against overhead, or some people just block high by default, etc). But if they guess wrong and are crouching, I guess it whiffs on Ryu if my memory is correct.
c.jab to s.strong is also a frame trap. c.jab +3 on block, s.strong 5 startup… 2 frame gap ( < 3-frame reversals can counter it… or they can just block and punish accordingly).
Yeah, like I said, if he’s not using the throw OS, feel free to use EX Roll when you want a reversal.
:encore:
Yeah…in all my time watching Abel match videos in vanilla, though, I only saw someone apply trade EX FS to Ultra once, and that was off a sagat that did nj.MK(? the downward one) as a throw bait on the Abel’s wakeup, while Abel had his back to the corner. I never messed with it at all, but it looked like it heavily depends on how high they are when you hit them, and definitely what they hit you with, since you have to wait for the hit stun to end to Ultra. I have a feeling if they’re using a Fierce of Roundhouse, it wont even be possible to Ultra in time, unless they’re so high up that it’s unrealistic.
That’s correct about the side-choosing. Honestly, it’s almost not something that can be explained. You really need to just start using it in matches and get a feel for controlling which side they land on. What you need to do to control it is also partially dependant on how high they are, even though regardless of the height, you can almost always choose either side.
The way I applied cl.HP to my game 90% of the time (and how I started using it) was as an anti-crossup. It hits so high above him it’s basically impossible for people to jump over you. One issue to be aware of though (that somehow happens to also be shown in the same match I linked to, at 1:21), is that cl.HP actually has a hitbox all above him, so you do it so late to the point where they’re over you when it hits, your QCF+LK can sometimes become a QCB+LK causing you do cancel into LK Wheel Kick instead of LK Roll. This is really rare though, like, in all the months I played Abel, it’s probably happened to me maybe 15-20 times total. Somehow one of them is in that video, lol.
So if you’re playing someone, and you notice they like to do a short string of a few shorts and jabs, and then jump as a gap to cross you up and restart pressure, keep cl.HP in mind, as that’s the easiest way to practice it. Once I got used to using it as an anti-air, I was able to actually eyeball jumps that were deep enough to use cl.HP as a regular anti air. However, in most cases you can do this, you can use c.HP (2nd hit) instead, which is better because of damage potential (especially with Ultra) and knockdown. The cl.HP xx LK Roll reset mixup is great and all, but it’s not guaranteed damage.
Correct again. cl.HP whiffs on most characters crouching, and in these kinds of ambiguous Roll mixups, the fact that c.LK hits low doesn’t really matter, because if you hit, it’s almost always because they’re blocking the wrong way. On top of that, the fact that if they get hit by the c.LK, it’s almost always because they’re blocking low the wrong way, which means they get hit crouching and cl.HP will whiff.
When I played against characters that can’t crouch cl.HP, I almost always used c.LK, cl.HP over c.LP, cl.MP (I loved c.LK, cl.HP against Balrog btw). It hits low, and is a more deceptive frame trap, in my opinion (I caught people with the cl.HP after blocking a c.LK infinitely more times then the cl.MP after blocking the c.LP). The only benefit of cl.MP over cl.HP is the block (dis)advantage. Both of those links should be used as a hitconfirm into CoD, since CoD is bad on block. If you’re planning to FADC the CoD anyway, even on block, for mixup then it doesn’t really matter. But cl.HP, though you never really see people punish it, is -4 on block which means the potential for punishment is there. cl.MP is only -2 on block which puts it in that “unpunishable, except by a few characters with super/ultra” category.
On top of that, because cl.MP is kind of an awkward move, if I was hit confirming and they blocked it, I’d see how they reacted. If the person didn’t push buttons after (either because they were unaware they had frame advantage, or they didn’t know the timing), if they wound up blocking it again later, I could use it as a mixup, because you can still LP TT afterwards, but you’re also still in c.LP range.
On super ambiguous roll mixups like the cl.HP xx LK Roll one (or TT, Dash LK/MK Roll for fake crossup/crossup), if I thought they’d block wrong, I’d often do c.LP, cl.MP. because it’s basically the only way for Abel to safely hit confirm into “real” damage. I really hate seeing Abel players guessing c.HP after Roll mixups, because it’s so punishable. There are definitely situations where you have to go for that guessed c.HP (no meter, and need to try to win the round off that mixup), but if you have 50%, you can risk nothing (besides a reversal obviously) by hit confirming c.LP, cl.MP into CoD, and FADCing into the c.HP safely. You don’t even lose that much damage. Plus, as an added bonus, c.LP is 3f faster then c.HP, so it’s just that much harder to block the Roll mixup.
yeah im guilty of doing too many roll into meaty cr.hp…
man i wish i have people/friends around my area that is into super too, training’s gonna be so much fun lol… they all be living so far
Man I love your posts. Lots of logic to go along with great advice. Now I gotta make sure I do a search of some of your older posts to see what gems I could find.
I got a question about the bolded ambiguous mix up. Is that how most of yall do it, meaning with lk/mk? When I first started to learn Abel I did a search but couldnt find any specifics about the ambiguous roll. Up till now I thought it was a dash lk roll/slightly delayed lk roll. Does it make a difference?
you can do dash lk roll, delayed lk except delaying your lk roll means you give up most of your frame advantage so vs. most scrubs who play SSF4, its not an option because they will wake up mashing the shit out of jab/short/throw so your options are greatly limited. I do my rolls right after landing TT… dash lk roll doesn’t cross up, dash mk roll does.
This is how I like to use the ambiguous roll
Well by delayed I mean not instantly.If i dont do it right away (1 frame late?) a lk roll crosses up. I assumed it would recover quicker than a mk roll(to my naked eye at least) The mk roll seems to barely recover just in time to block. It if it makes no difference, then the mk roll would be much more consistent