i used to think it was cheap, but now I’ve learned the timing and I can simply beat his ultra with my ultra. I could care less haha.
Abel: Let’s Go!
Bison: Scream in Pain!
…
NIGHTMARE BOOSTER! This place shall become your Grave!
hey, hey, when you say “you” ppl i hope i’m not in that equation lol. btw i really have no idea. ppl usually just bend over to ppl who have a reputation without thinking twice.
If you can not react to breathless this is not the game for you bro. You get that nice ultra reaction screen and if you didn’t make a dumb footsies mistake or a bad jump in then you won’t get hit. The ultra itself is a good tool in OS’s against characters that can not deal with it.
Haha wow I thought most people would assume it would be quite the opposite, thats the way I lean at least.
This thread really really made my day. Especially with my mom sick and all.
I can’t remember laughing so hard for a while now.
ps: lol @ the topic. Why am I not surprised at how things have turned out?
smh… <insert more lols here>… /facepalm <while loling some more>.
I hit Art with it in an online tournament due to him missing a Seth link and went on to win the round after having my ass handed to me throughout it. In my defence I took the first round without even hitting my ultra, and in his he completely beasted me with Sim in the next set and the one after that. Seth is such a free match for Abel thanks to the damage ratios and in turn this puts any risk plays in Abel’s favour, add to that Seth’s nerfed port and you have Abel’s easiest match.
Breathless as it is, is perfectly fair. You’re only garmented hits are if they panic in escaping Abel’s rushdown, on top of that it’s a better counter ultra than Soulless. It compensates for Abel’s biggest weakness, and in picking it you lose the easy combo-ability of Soulless. People might say it’s cheap, but none of the people I spar with have a difficult time escaping it now unless they’ve put themselves in a situation where they deserve to be hit by it i.e. neutral jumping out of rushdown.
abels new ultra is really noobish…it saved juicebox alot…if it wasnt 4 that he most deff wouldnt have gottn that far…i kno ur all like who the fuck r u…ply me nd ill show u…
who the fuck are you meng you aint shit
/joke
like i said ply me nd ill show u
Nobody knows who you are… but you make the mistake in thinking anyone cares who you are.
his language intrigues me. i can’t say i’m not a little curious.
I think the argument is how when Abel is in off of step kick how gay it gets. I mean they could put the damage on the screen or they could do a block string and reset it. Or do nothing. . . .it’s quite the guess.
From my perspective as a Makoto player we’re just gonna flat out guess if I block a step kick. Throw or jump cause one of us is gonna. I block it I’m either jumping/blocking/EX Karakusa and it has to be treated as a separate guess each time. The problem a lot of good players hate is how they have a good understanding of fundamentals and SF then they block a step kick and it’s like (@_@). . . Other than that raw guess he gets for free she wins that fight but that free guess is stupid annoying. But Makoto vs Abel is no different than when Abel is guessing right against any other character. It’s just gonna be a guess on wake up or step kick all day.
Hey guess what… you have one of the best backdashes in the game. Use that. I bet Step Kicks aren’t nearly as scary anymore. None of Abel’s standard options work on Makoto backdash. When you start using that, Abel has to start doing OS sweep (which makes his mix-up so much less scary) or he can choose to commit to other more damaging, and much more suicidal options, like double dashing after a Step Kick.
And again… you guys are acting like these guess situations are necessarily in Abel’s favor.
TT- Loses to jump out, back dash, any move 3f move, any move with invinc. Beats blocking, beats throws, beats any non-invinc 4f+ move (and why would anyone do that anyway)
EX TT- Loses to jump out, backdash, throw, any move with invinc. Beats blocking, quick strikes.
Stand Fierce- Loses to anything with invinc, 3f moves, backdash, throw, majority of the cast can duck this and punish Abel hard. Beats jump out attempts (for big damage, only if frame perfect… otherwise, triggers an air flip-out, and the subsequent CoD will miss, and Abel takes big damage himself… For these purposes we’ll assume frame perfection for everything… but obviously in the real world shit happens), slow non-invinc moves (again… why would anyone do this). If blocked, Abel will go into CoD, leaving him at -3 from point blank. Against some characters, that equals a free punish, against other characters, there’s still a mix up, but a mix up that either includes proceeding with CoD (which is really punishable at this point) or starting a mix at -3… which isn’t as deadly at all.
Low Jab- Much better option against characters that can duck s. FP, which, again… is the majority of characters… Loses to quick strikes, throws, any move with invinc. Beats jump-out, slow-ass moves. Against blocking, it keeps opponent grounded. Backdash can get away, but Abel can choose to OS sweep here, and sweep some members of the cast. Others can backdash freely on Low Jab (even Abel can backdash OS sweep safely against another Abel, and Abel’s backdash is shit). This creates an issue for Abel. In this situation, the only way Abel does real damage is to combo cr. JP-> s. SP xx CoD xx whatever. To do this, Abel has to choose beforehand whether he’s going to OS sweep, or try to go for damage. If he tries to go for damage, plenty of backdashes will get out, and be able to punish Abel’s slow-ass Stand Strong, since there is not enough time to hit confirm the Low Jab before you have to hit the link. If Abel chooses to cover the backdash, and his Low Jab hits, then he just got two Low Jabs, which he can then combo into another Low Jab into Stand Short for zero damage, or he can try to tick after the 2nd Jab into Jab TT (at this point, there’s no reason for the opponent not to mash backdash, since he can’t cover it now…).
Normal throw- Loses to anything with invinc. Beats any strike attempt, blocking, most characters’ neutral jump can be punished. A throw attempt will tech. Jumping away will get opponent away… Some characters’ neutral jumps will allow pressure (though I don’t think any will actually punish the throw whiff). Backdash gets opponent away (though in some cases, Abel can grab the backdash, but this involves Abel waiting a number of frames after his dash is over before he attempts the throw, which obviously creates a whole new dynamic that I won’t get into. Suffice it to say… the opponent now has WAY more ways to get out, and this set-up requires frame-perfect timing 5 frames after his dash ends, which makes it much harder… though in terms of taking damage, this is relatively risk-free for Abel).
Overhead- Loses to any normal with decent speed, almost anything with invinc (will beat some reversals for Counter Hit, but will lose to the vast, vast, vast majority of reversals), throw, high block. Beats jump-out (for air reset, which Abel can follow for more pressure), low block, can catch some backdashes, but others will escape.
Block- Loses to throw. “Loses” to quick normals. Beats reversal spam. Beats neutral jump. Jump away gets out. Backdash gets out, unless you can react with something.
Roll- Loses to throw, 3f moves (unless you EX Roll… but who’s gonna do that). Beats reversal spam. Can deal with jump-out/backdash depending.
All of this is after blocking a Step Kick, which if you really had “a good understanding of fundamentals and Street Fighter”, you wouldn’t be doing too much anyway. It’s not like Abel has all of these amazing, imposing buttons at mid-range, and he just can’t be outpoked. Most SF4 players just have HORRIBLE footsies, and keeping Abel out of Step Kick range requires that your footsies at least be “bad”. Horrible won’t cut it… sorry.
So anyway, yeah… I don’t think I left anything out that’s actually good…
All of these options have success rates that aren’t super high. Maaaaaaaaybe 50/50 if you were to just spin a wheel. In the real world, obviously, you should be reading the situation to understand what Abel will most likely go for, and you can cut out a number of his options before you even think about them. In return, the Abel player is looking to choose the option you are most likely to fall for, but hey… that’s SF. In a lot of situations, it’s dead obvious what the Abel is going to go for, because it’s what he has to go for to win the match. I laugh at how many times I see people lose to Abel when they’re in a “guessing” situation, and they choose to defend by doing the one thing that can kill them. Here’s a tip: If you block a Step Kick, and you have 40% life left, and Abel has 2 bars and Ultra… don’t try to jump out. It’s not gonna work out for you.
But I digress. In most of these situations, Abel can be hurt bad if you guess right… Not to mention being pushed out of any effective range… and against some characters, it can be hell to work back in.
You can be hurt bad if you guess wrong in these situations… no question.
If you notice though… and this is for any character… backdash gets you out of anything really damaging. Abel has to start playing a whole other game once backdash comes into the equation. Yes, Abel can play that game too, but that game is much harder to play, and makes it so that the Abel player has to add in a bunch of stuff to his game, and against a lot of characters, he has to start taking really big risks. From the sounds of things though… a lot of you guys are still just losing to Abel doing regular-ass layer-one Abel shit, and you should probably stop bitching, and start paying attention.
Evo’s next week.
HAV I think that post should go in abel Q&A or new abel match theory thread. Thats way too much good info posted in what looks like a pointless thread for people to pass over.
lol hav good shit
i thought of responding to guy with a similar post (not as detailed though - mainly saying that all this talk about f.mk pressure, a good player can make it a hell for the abel player to even land a blocked f.mk) but then i thought fuck it since to me thats too much of a common sense/fundamental stuff and i wasnt feeling like feedin people.
i…kinda care n_n
I understand everything you are saying and for me it’s just another day when fighting against Abel. It’s a lot more of reading the opponent than anything else for me. I know my back dash is really good but it’s also really bad at times lol. Though you can’t take it away from him no matter HOW heavy the risk/reward is, it’s ALWAYS there. It may be hard to initiate and you may get killed bad for a wrong guess but when you guess right it’s a good day lolz.
Just for my own game to be improved. What does a boxer player do against this ultra when hes in a corner and too far to jump over abel? i mean i could sit there and try to jump over it when he releases but its pretty fast and i’m not so sure about that when playing online with lag. Does his rush armor break punch beat this ult?
Sounds like whatever you do, its gonna be on reaction. No tatsu flyouts like shotos.
Can backdashing beat UII?
Chun can hammer on backdash on reaction to the Breathless flash and she’ll escape it fine as long as the corner doesn’t catch her.