Bread & Butter/Meterless Punish Options

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Our main B&B’s so far for Chun have been c.lk… EX Legs, and c.hp x RH Legs, MK Legs loop. Those are nice, but I think we can do better. The EX Legs B&B only does 170-ish damage, and the c.hp series needs at least one loop iteration to make it worth it and includes a 1-frame link into piano inputs, and another tight 1-frame link.

For a B&B/meterless punish combo, I propose this - cs.hk, LL Legs, s.fp. 240 meterless damage, much easier than the loop combo. You don’t get the hard knockdown but I don’t think Chun needs it, and it pushes the opponent far away enough so that Chun doesn’t have to worry about retaliation. cs.hk starts up in 4 frames, so unless your punish would be a one-frame link with jab/short there’s no reason why you shouldn’t use cs.hk if your opponent is in range.

That having been said, cs.hk, LL Legs, s.fp doesn’t work perfectly on everyone. Who it does work on: Akuma, Honda, Ibuki, Makoto, Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Gen, Oni, Yun, Juri, Chun, Dhalsim, Abel, Bison, Sagat, Dee Jay, Guy, Blanka, Gief, Rufus, Vega, Balrog, Fei, Hawk
(Note: In the case of Dudley and Ibuki, for some reason sometimes they randomly drop a hit of the LL, dropping the damage down to 225. In Rufus’s case sometimes the combo drops (can’t follow up with s.fp) - seems to happen randomly when he is standing. If the cs.hk forces stand it’s much more consistent.)

If you’re willing to burn meter or want to get the opponent in a juggle state, cs.hk, LL Legs, c.mk x EX Legs works on the following characters for 320 damage: Honda, Makoto, Gouken, Yun, Chun, Dhalsim, Abel, Bison, Sagat, Blanka, Gief, Rufus, Vega, Fei, Hawk

Some characters drop a hit from the LL, only getting 225 damage: Ryu, Ken, E.Ryu, Dan, Cammy, Hakan, Adon. You can’t use c.mk after LL Legs against these characters as well.

Against any character listed above, you can use cs.hk, LL Legs, EX Legs for anywhere from 256 to 300-ish damage. Depends on how many hits she gets out of the legs. If you are going for this, make sure to start mashing EX Legs late so that you don’t end up getting a regular extension legs.

Also since the combo ends in s.fp, you can combo super aftewards for over 400 damage.

Some characters drop completely out of cs.hk, LL Legs, s.fp. They are: Sakura, Viper, Guile, Fuerte, Rose. Don’t bother doing it because it won’t work.

However! There is a variation that works on ALL characters - cs.hk, RH Legs, s.lp, s.fp. 245 damage. The s.lp is a one-frame link and the timing is extremely tight - and the s.fp is also a tight one-framer. This combo is much more difficult than the LL Legs version, so I wouldn’t recommend it just for the extra 5 damage.

And while we’re here, speaking of the RH -> MK Legs loop, there are characters it doesn’t work on and some that it only works in specific situations. If you only do one iteration (c.hp x RH Legs -> MK Legs, c.rh) that’s 225 and I think the LL Legs combo is much easier (unless you really want that hard knockdown). One iteration works on all characters. A loop (c.hp x RH Legs -> MK Legs, c.hp x RH Legs -> MK Legs, c.rh) will give you near 300 damage but does not work on all characters. The list is as follows -

Works, period: Akuma, Honda, Ibuki, Makoto, Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Gen, Oni, Yun, Juri, Chun, Dhalsim, Able, Bison, Sagat, Dee Jay, Guy, Blanka, Gief, Fei, Hawk, Hakan, Adon, Guile, Fuerte
(Note: Damage may vary depending on how many hits of the LL connect.)

Works on standing opponents only: Ryu, Ken, E.Ryu, Dan, Viper, Rufus, Vega, Balrog

Works on crouching opponents only: Cammy

Does not work: Sakura, Rose

Anyway, I think we have to start using these options more to optimize her damage output. I’m going to start using them more in matches. Of course c.lk…EX Legs and c.fp x RH Legs will still have their uses, but I hope the options here help give me that winning edge. Just wanted to share this with fellow Chun players.

2

i do like more cr.hp xx MK sbk as a meterless punish

cl.hp xx LL would be nice if the god damn palm wasnt that shitty

3

MK SBK is nice but you do have to be sitting on charge. Also I’m not a fan of the position it leaves Chun in. It’s +2 but leaving Chun in the opponent’s face goes against my “hit and run” policy of playing her now. If my opponent has two bars and a good DP there isn’t a good reason for them not to do DP FADC. It’s good to make them waste the meter but it sets up a potential mix-up situation Chun has to get out of, when she was just the one on offense.

The other problem with c.hp cancels is that you only get 50 off that first hit, then Chun goes into a sequence of auto-hits that drives up the damage scaling. This is what makes the loop not as damaging as it should be. If there is any situation where you are in range for cs.hk and have the 4 frames to hit it I think this is what we should be starting our combos with.

4

cl.hk xx Ex legs is the best punish either way

decent damage plus knockdown, one meter.

i do get what are you saying, 240 dmg meterless is very good, but im not going to do that if i have meter to spend.

5

Cl. HK xx HK Legs-> cr. jab-> st. fierce. It’s an old combo and still has 1f links but it’s consistent the the whole cast as far as I remember. HK Legs isn’t as advantageous on hit or block, but it pushes back less on hit.

I brought it up because you can connect cr. lk (or cr. lk x 2) xx EX legs after HK legs too due to less pushback. Being able to do cr. lk x 2 after HK legs is better than only being able to do it once because the confirm will be way more consistent than spazzing out trying to get EX Legs after. Notes on the character specifics of the combo copied from my personal chun notes:

Cl. hk xx hk legs, cr. lk x 2 xx ex legs worth it on shotos, viper, cammy (also works on twins, Gouken, Honda, Makoto, Chun, Bison, Vega, Fei long and Rufus).

  • The same chars that are mentioned in note the above note, you can link HSU, cr. lk x 2 xx ex legs (also works on crouching Dan, Sakura, Juri, Dhalsim, Abel, Sagat, Bison, Fuerte, Adon and Rose) . Does not work on crouching Twins or standing bison in addition to omitted characters.

I don’t have the character specifics of landing HSU -> cr. lp-> st. hp on crouching characters but it definitely doesn’t work on every character and people should know that so they don’t get punished for trying and thinking they just messed on their timing.

6

If you’re willing to burn meter you can use cs.hk, LL Legs, c.mk, EX Legs for 340. It’s not particulary hard and I have no idea why you would choose not to do this when cs.hk, EX Legs only gives 260. Even against the characters c.mk doesn’t connect on you can go straight into EX Legs after the LL Legs which still gives you better damage depending on the character.

I don’t think c.lk…EX Legs is going away. We need that for when Chun hits random jabs/shorts, and if you want to be tricky and take advantage of her amazing range on c.lk. She’s fortunate that she has an option for converting a random jab/short into knockdown damage. Just if Chun gets a punish opportunity - a good jump over a fireball or something whiffed right in front of her or a FA crumple - I think the cs.rh into LL Legs option is the best way to go. You can still burn the meter if you want and get more damage than you would off just cs.rh, EX Legs.

I don’t think c.fp x RH Legs is going away either. Since cs.rh needs Chun to be right in the opponent’s face if you want to use Legs in a blockstring you’re going to have to use c.fp. Just we need to start maximizing our damage output.

Yeah I listed that one. It does work on everyone but it’s got those two tight 1-framers and is only 5 more damage than the LL Legs option. I wouldn’t choose this if the full LL Legs combo works. If only partial…depends. I’d probably still go with LL Legs just because it’s more reliable. Against the characters where LL Legs doesn’t work at all I’d probably use the RH variant. Or if I knew I wanted an EX Legs juggle at the end.

7

dunno really, cr.mk from hk legs is hard to link most of the time for no real reason

8

Character specifics for landing a HSU -> cr. lp -> st. hp on the opponent crouching:

HSU -> cr. lp -> st. hp is not possible on crouching Gen*, Rose*, Hakan*, Fuerte*, Ryu**, Ken**, Honda**, Ibuki**, Akuma**, Dan**, Oni**, Juri**, Dhalsim**, Viper**, Bison**, Cammy**, Dee Jay*, Cody**, Guy**, E. Ryu**, Blanka**, Vega**, Adon**, Yun***, Yang***, or Chun***

*These characters can be hit with cr. lp -> st. hp while they are crouching, but you can’t link a cr. lp on them after HSU while they are crouching because of their weird hit-reel animation.

**These characters cannot be hit with cr. lp -> st. hp while crouching at all (on some st. hp outright whiffs), but you can link a cr. lp after HSU while they are crouching, so you can try cr. lp -> cr. mk ( xx EX Legs) instead or opt to go for cr. lk (or cr. lk x 2) xx EX legs (see my post above for details).

*** These characters can’t be hit with cr. lp -> st. hp while crouching OR link a cr. lp after HSU.

It works on Makoto, Dudley, Seth, Gouken, Sakura, Abel, Sagat, Guile, Zangief, Rufus, Balrog*, Fei Long, and T. Hawk while they are crouching.

So only 1/3 of the cast while crouching.

*For Balrog you can only link a cr. lp after a MK HSU. The LK version leaves you too far apart.