He’s not saying that, what hes saying is it doesn’t matter how hard you have to work for a win, it matters if you get the win. No matter how hard something is, as SF has proved time and time again, someone will always master it.
bottom 3 is pretty easy. Bottom five is really tough.
Let’s see…
Worst: Kyosuke (almost unusable)
2nd Worst: Dan (usable, but is fairly helpless against top tier)
3rd Worst: King (fights top tier a little better
…after that it gets all muddled, because I’ve seen a specialist for EVERY other character in the game that makes their character look crazy good. If forced to pick two though, I’d pick:
4th Worst: Haohmaru
5th Worst: Nakoruru…?
I dunno. The only reason I picked these two characters is because I haven’t physically seen the Japanese players who specialize in these characters play. I’m sure they’d show me some crazy shit that would make me change my mind.
As far as what other people are saying, Maki is so NOT bottom tier. At one point in the game (Evo2k2) she was considered top 6 by some Japanese players. Zangief is considered to be one of the best K-Groove characters in the game (Ino thinks top 3). The best Maki player in Japan also has a killer N-Dhalsim and N-Yuri. I could go on and on…
Dan is actually mid tier if used right. only kyosuke is unusable.
Yun is a very solid character who just needed a liitle boost in strength and/or health. Honestly, I think a RC Yun beats Blanka and goes even with Cammy. Sagat beats him though. Just too strong.
Yeah, Kyosuke pretty much blows. Slow ass normals. Probably the worst fireball in the game. Good down fierce and supers though. But yeah, he sucks. Use him in K. Everyone is good in K.
King at worst 3? Yo she is not THAT bad.
As long as you keep her in either C or A Groove. If her god damned sweep was still cancellable. Fuck that shit man, she wasn’t THAT broken in CvS1 they did need to take that out.
asdf
makes me want to play kyosuke and combo Final Heaven Remix on everyone… he not entirely worthless LOL atleast not in casual 
.
5 characters I wouldnt use in tournament if I was serious about trying to win
-
Kyosuke(Should have added Soccer guy instead he would have owned LOL)
-
Vice(Ex was good in CVS1 but not anymore)
-
Dan(A groove good but… gets out prioritized alot)
-
Beni(Was good in CVS1 good normals in this game but shitty Vitality and damage)
-
King(EX king will forever be favorite character in CVS1 but CVS2 she loses pretty badly on high levels because of previously stateed facts)
Have you seen specialized Vice and Benimaru players in Japan?? I’m curious as to what sort of tricks they have up their sleeve.
beni
sim
kyosuke
vice
king
yun
dan
yuri
Well, these are some of the characters people mentioned as underdogs so far… I guess Kyosuke is just crap because his moves just suck and it’s hard to compete (and I guess maybe Dan too?). But for the rest it seems it might just be that they’re so weak in terms of stamina and the damage they dish out… If you have to hit the other guy twice as much as he has to hit you to win, that sucks. 
Can anyone fill me in on this Chang trap? …And K-Gief top 3 Kgroove character ?! O_O that’s an eye-opener right there! I would love to see a K-Gief at that level… against Yama no less. 
For Chang the BASIC BASIC skeleton of the trap is to throw hurricane choi and mid range, or flying choi from long range. Chang starts to edge forward and react to the opponent… if the opponent rolls, Chang slides. If the jump, Chang does jumping HP or cHP. If they block advance with jumpingHP (which is one of his BEST normals) or move forward and stick out a s.HK. If the get hit, then throw another hurricane choi if in range, or a flying choi if you’re far (obviously you try to mix all this up to keep them guessing)… This is all until the opponent reaches the corner… now you can trap them with the ball… basics go, throw choi, deep jumping HKXXball. If the ball hits them CANCEL the ball right away and repeat, if they block then it does MASSIVE guard crush and you’re pretty safe… Mix in command grabs every once in a while, and voila… you have Chang in a nutshell
Theoretically, wouldn’t that make Kyosuke top-tier for having an infinite in S-Groove?
Of course not. Kyosuke has to get in the red to do that. Back in CvS1, ppl would just NOT let Iori and Mai get in the red so they couldn’t do desperation supers. You can do the same thing to Kyosuke now. Just kick his ass enough so he’s not in the red, and he’ll have a hell of a time trying to catch up. Just turtle it out. Not that you’d need to. You can zone Kyosuke out pretty easily. Plus, you always have to factor in the +/- 5% for human error. One slight error here or there, Kyosuke’s toast. He can’t take advantage of openings, his moves are too slow and have no priority, and he’s not that buffed when it comes to life. Kyosuke played perfectly will never beat any other character played perfectly. He doesn’t have the tools to win.
yeah
Either way im still sticking with Vice in N, and King in A…
Sorry Gunter but roll canceling isnt my thing even though i can
perform roll cancels…
And I like A-Groove even though Rollerblader said that A-groove
is rocks worst groove I totaly diagreed with him…
Im sorry but K Rock is very boring to me and rock has a decent amount of setups in A-Groove and decent damaging ones too…
(Mind you, hes no Bison, like I said before in the K groove thread about rock)
I do want to learn to play him at a high skill level though,
and i saw your rock combo video on namonaki a while back
when you were first making them, I checked out each vid you had to see what the combos were like, especially when i used to be into A-groove athena. It is because of your site that I learned to use A-groove, then I was able to branch off and make my own combos and mix it up, thus sometimes leading to higher damaging ones than the customs in Famitsu.(I think thats how you spell it 
)
Anyway im with you about A-groove King all the way, thanks for having such a great site and props for the vids too…
Later…
By the way: A-King/Rock/Terry N-Vice/Geese/Yama
P Zangief is the dominant player when you get to really high levels. Forget cammy/blanka/sagat/bison/sakura
Basically it’s very simple. Once he’s ahead on life, he can turtle until th emeter runs down: If you stick out any attack he’ll parry it. If you try to get past this by throwing him, he’ll throw you first with his 0-frame grab. There’s absolutely nothing you can do against a Zangief who can parry everything you do and SPD you the minute you get in range.
To get ahead on life, he just advances really slowly, parrying everything you do, until he’s in range to SPD you, or you stick out a move laggy enough that he can jab you afterwards. Then it’s all downhill from there.
Think about it, nothing can beat it. You can’t zone him out forever because he’ll be slowly advancing…
P-Zangief? I’d just A-Sak that. Bait the parry and activate, then DPs over and over. SPD only has one frame to grab, and that’ll be eaten up by the activation. Same with any other move. The only thing Gief can do is try to parry the ENTIRE CUSTOM, which is impossible to do. Sak can change her rhythm on the hits, insert a hurricane or overhead, etc. Plus, he was most likely trying to do something anyway… that’s what the A-Sak player was anticipating and countered with a custom. P-Gief is good, I’ll give you that… but “nothing can beat it” is saying a BIT too much.
stuff
Now, by “mid screen” do you mean the standard definition of midscreen as in “anywhere BUT the corners” or do you mean a half screen combo (i.e. can only be done through half the screen, going towards the corner)? I can’t see a true midscreen combo doing anywhere near 7500, ESPECIALLY starting with c.forward (which all ground combos should start with, because it is her fastest normal AND hits low). Enlighten me.
King Mid 7500
This combo can be done mid screen (middle of screen or almost mid screen to corner)
GUNTER: i.e. can only be done through half the screen, going towards the corner)
C.FK, FK fireball, cancel into roll, [SJ. FPx4]x2, FK Trap Shot, C.FP,
into super (the one that does the most damage, Silhouette Illusion I think)
If the Fp’s are done fast enough you can get one set of 4 and the last set you can get 5 Fp’s…
this combo should get you 7500+ with the extra FP, the one above does 7400+…
Hope this helps, this one works well for me even though I dont use C.MK to start it, but you can use a C.mk to start it and probally get just as much damage…
Later…
If you ever see anybody that can get even remotely close to doing this, let me know. If I had the ability to “parry everything you do” I would be the best CvS2 player in the world with any character I wanted, even if I didn’t have the ability to “SPD you the minute you get in range”. Come on now. Let’s keep this realistic.
Maybe this is a stupid question… But couldn’t Gief parry the first hit of the CC, then hit Sakura? I know parrying a CC is really hard because you have to anticipate it like a lvl3, but why do you have to parry the whole CC?
This was actually done before at SBO (in a match with Bas, I think), but I don’t know which character parried. It wasn’t Gief, though.
I have to disagree with Yuri being a bottom-tier.
Although she may be a weaker shoto, Yuri does have more pros than cons for her selection. With her air-fireball, she keeps aggressive people predicting and grounded. Her slaps, though they lack a good startup, have good speed and screen coverage. Her throws may as well be commands since they have good distancing and execution. While she may not be as strong, Yuri is no character to consider lowly of. IMO, she’s one of this game’s most underrated characters.
That said, here are my five choicesof the “lowest” characters:
-
Raiden. He’s Zangief, but without the priority and power. He can basically be played as a wrestling turtle, but his lack of speed makes him a moving target for quick characters.
-
Ryo. IMO, Yuri has more to her game than Ryo. He’s basically a shoto clone, but with no real way to distinguish himself as a seperate fighter.
-
Balrog. This boxer was so abused. He has such potential, and the makers have to wipe out any hopes for his return to success. In the old SF games, he was almost worshipped for his ability to dash up unexpectedly and knock your teeth out. Now, his punches have weakened substantially, his game has been given no major boosting, and his possibility of a “resurrection from the ashes” has been blown away. I used to love using this guy, but now, the people made him such a shell of his former glory…
-
Hahomaru. This guy is SLOW, slower than some of the heaviest guys, and that boggles me. He had such power in the SS series, but in CvS2, they toned him down…awfully so. I didn’t make him the worst because he does have the chance to be good. It just takes major patience and good opportunities, especially with a projectile as slow as his.
-
Vice. I hate this chick with a passion. She is SO annoying to fight. It’s not that her moves were made strong. It’s that they’re annoying to get caught in for their lack of damage. Vice had her day, but the reason why they put her in this game still boggles me. Her only good thing is her lvl 3 hand grab super. Otherwise, all she can do is do light kicks and punches and pray that she gets anything in. To all who like her, I have nothing against that. In fact, I respect the ability that you have to use her. Just to me, I don’t see her use or effectiveness.
I didn’t put Kyosuke in because I have yet to understand how he is played. My choices were based on both playtime and strategies from how I play (or would play in some cases… :mad: ). I think Kyosuke has a purpose for being there and that there is a person playing who will prove Kyosuke’s strength…until then, I give him the benefit of the doubt and choose not to comment on him.
-NinjMai