Bottom Tier Thread

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
41

Vice is really good. She has a lot of tricks I’m positive the general CvS2 public doesn’t know about… I think her pros outweigh her cons by a lot, so it’s unfair to say the only thing she has going for her is her level 3 or some other generalization like that. She’s one of those characters that people would use a lot more often if 1.) she did more, took less damage and 2.) didn’t have a ridiculously high learning curve. Anyway, one of my friends gave me a big boring list of why he thinks she’s a complete character the other night. Everything sounded solid to me. People are sleeping on her that’s all.

Don’t underestimate Haohmaru in K or P either. He can be tough to fight with certain characters. J.HP is good.

42

characters low tier?

I wouldnt be so quick to judge Raiden, cause where zangief lacks in A-groove, Raiden makes up for him, having supers other than
throw, flame breath ect…

His custom does about 8500 on namonaki, and if you start it
with a FP tackle (ready go! (shit)) activate, C.mp, Lp tackle
then continue the namonaki custom, which is about 9200+:eek:
which is just about or more damage than a normal bison custom.
(I think it does more than 9200 but i cant check at the moment)

Truth is, i only know this because I’ve been experimenting with him latley;)

And that shit is easy as hell and damaging, and since it usually starts with a trip (c.fk) (Raiden) it has good range too it…

Vice is a good character IMO, I still play with her a little cause
Im trying to put a team together consisting of:

Vice or Yun/ Geese/ Yamazaki

But I dont know what groove, any help people??

And I need a redesigned custom team cause originally it was
King/Rock/Terry, but terry’s getting boring and repetitive,
So I started using Raiden to fill terrys spot, but now my team seems more akward then it already is…:lol:

Mind you I also use Rolento, and i cant seem to download gunters A-groove Rolento video, but it doesnt matter I’ll just get the transcription of the video from his site, thats how I did it with rock…(but i was able to download rocks :wink:

anyway if you guys can help me out it would be much appreciated.

I cant do the bison, sakura so that wont work, and i dont like them that much either…:rolleyes:

Later…:cool:

43

All of your choices are wrong. You’re just comparing most of them to counterparts from earlier games and using the designs and learning curves of each one as a gauge for their overall effectiveness. Those selections are positively in the mid-tier range and above for reasons that are mostly the exact opposite of yours and then some.

If you can RC with Vice, go with whichever rolling groove that suits you best. I’d use A, because in the instance I’m fighting a Rolento, I could corner him and use the ground throw glitch on him repeatedly in one CC.

44

Random Vice question since were talking about her…

If I activate CC, and there next to me, grounded, and NOT doing an invincible move or just starting one… can they escape the hcb,f+p throw?

Seems like free damage to me. Mind you, i can’t do that crazy superjump instant crazylegs CC… but I can at least do a ghetto easy version for OK damage.

Neo: Rolento’s ground CC is easy as pie… with the only hard part being the cancel into minesweeper. It has been discussed to death, so if you search for it you should find something.

45

marvelscrub I can do the BAS cc for rolento cause it isnt that hard
and it takes 8000+…

now I dont know exactly what you mean about when “there grounded”, the only characters that you can grab off of the ground in a repetitive fasion is dan and rolento in A-groove…
(your using A groove)

But if your saying that if you grab while there grounded and you wont be vulnerable then yes you will be vulnerbal especially if its a shoto, but if you need help there is “1” combo video on this site that you can download and it shows a vice CC in the begining,
then again I havent seen the whole video but the vice CC is on it…

And if you think all my choices are wrong well then thats you opinion GF2, but having odd characters in A-groove isnt neccessarily a disadvantage, but increases the factor of unpredictability, and the other factor of your opponent saying:
“What the fuck” when you select your A-groove chars…
(which happend today at the arcade)

And not everyone uses rolento anymore so A-groove vice may not be the best choice…

anyway if you understood the simplicity of raidens cc then you could probally see were im coming from, but none the less I respest your opinions…(sorry im not a big fan of RC’ing, I think its
cheap and it brings the fun factor of the game down in my opinion, I have other reasons but its too late for that shit right now, at least where im at:lol:

for now this is how its gonna be

A-groove: Rock/Raiden/King R2 but i might replace rock for rolento
N-groove: Vice/Geese/Yamazaki the truth is I havent been playing with this team at all, cause im having more fun using A-groove…

Later…:slight_smile:

46

Neo: Ohh… I thought you were having problems finding Rolento’s CC. Looks like you’ve got it down tho.

When I said Grounded, I meant standing/crouching. Just not in the air, or not knocked down.

What is this “1” combo from what site and from what vid are you talking about?

47

combo vid

Sorry about that, its in the multimedia section of shoryuken and
its called xerocrew-CVS2vol.3 and it is down loaded onto windows
media player which takes forever on my computer…

Im still having A-groove trouble though, I mean I want to keep
Rock even though he is a complex character to learn, and I like
him in a groove, and I really could care less if anyone disagrees with the fact that I use Rock and Raiden in A-groove…
(thats what makes me ME)

Anyway I need to get an idea of how a good rock player uses him
maybe I can see a vid somewhere on japs playing with rock,
cause I hear they love him over there…

And ill post a raiden thread in General discussion cause no one
has responded to anything in the character specific… :confused:

and I need help against certain characters…
Especially fucking athena, oh god just put cable in the game and
shoot the bitch, cause I get down fierced into submisssion… :frowning: :frowning:
(when im using raiden in A)

But when I get the custom off, guess what? K.O:evil:
And long lived the queen…

I also think im going to stop using king in serious play and focus
on another character, any suggestions? (no I cant bison or sakura that shit, and I really dont like sakura anyway)

yeah and the rolento vid doesnt have any transcriptions up for
him at namonaki so I guess i’ll have to look else where…

I thought about putting rolento in there but sagat is scary if he down fierces him at all, which I saw in a tournament today,
and combofiend was in it… :smiley:

maybe I might put terry back in but his shit gets boring after a while, and rocks complexity makes him fun to play with,
I used to use A geese but I had no idea on how to use him stratigically in A-groove…

By the way marvelscrub were probally the only ones still posting to this thread, so what do you think, can you help me out a little?

48

combo vid

Stop using King??? Shame on you! Actually, if you’re not evolved to the point to make RC’s part of your gameplay, you shouldn’t use her anyway. For non-RC characters and big damage CCs, your best bets are Sagat and Todo. Todo gains a lot from RC grab, but you can make do without it (tragic never RC grabs with him).

**

Ummm… http://www.namonaki.com/games/transcriptions.html

I’m working on a remodel of the site, so if there’s not a link to it now, there will be.

49

King

Nah gunter, its not that I want to quit with her because I made
so much progress with her CC wise. When I use her in the arcade
I get spanked by ryu and sagat ect…

I can RC I just choose not too, even though when I decided to
RC once during a match to see if it gave the trap shot anti-air
qualities, and it was kind of scary that it worked like a charm,
I mean both people RC’ing all the time is weird, everyones invincible, and people always call you cheap if you use it…

yeah todo seems like a good A groover, but that custom on your site looks :bluu: like it will take a lot of practice…

I still want to keep using Raiden and Rock in A, but ill either put geese in there again or todo maybe, I can do geese’s A-groove okay and my version of the anti air custom, but I lack with him
stratigically in A and im not sure on how to improve, anybody know where I can get A-groove geese vids or a vid:lol:

Raidens custom is damaging also so I like him and the fact that he can break sagats meter pretty well…

dammit I really liked king too especially her custom… :frowning:

Later…:slight_smile:

PS: going into a c.mk for the start of my mid screen custom is a better option because its faster and it makes the rest of my custom easier…(its just more logical, so thanks gunter:)

So I guess im going for priority over damage, which isnt bad
because it still does about 7300+.

PS: sorry about that gunter I ment to say athena.

50

Has anybody made a transcription of BAS’s A-Akuma combos yet? I’ve been trying to learn this character for like a year now, but I suck too much…

edit: from the video on gunter’s site.

51

Hey Kcxj

go to namonaki and download the A-groove akuma vid there are
some sweet combos for him and I think gunter performs one of the bas combos your looking for, and dont feel bad, cause I probally suck even more than you when I attempted A rock…

Dame I could do the customs but my strategy just shouted ultimate scrub, but the truth is I like geese more since he’s my favorite character…

Later…:cool:

52

dude!! vice is a bitch!!!

in New Park Mall tilt, this dude was using vice/chang/??? in K. People were almost in shock , they didnt know shit how to couonter chang and vice, since they are underused. i almost took out his vice with my rolento, we had even life, until her throw super came at my face. i had guile and cammy to fight her, my cvs2 guile sucked at that time so i got beaten down.

53

Referring to the “E-Tai-Yo” Super Only:

Actually, the Lvl3 grab super is good in general, though it’s a bit harder to land once ‘activated’ in any SNK groove based on the time meter (people tend to start running away). In that aspect, I think the Lvl3s, as far as set-ups to connect it, gets awarded to C-Groove (In P-Groove, the ends don’t justify the means due to its slow Level Up) since the Lvl3 isn’t time based, so you can throw it off anytime.

Don’t knock the Lvl1s though…I actually think that the Lvl1s are more useful because it serves the same properties as C/P Groove Level 3 as far as storage ( Thus opening her options for N-Groove, and A-Groove, but who uses Lvl1s in A :lol: ), and it adds up if connected consistently. Heh…Vice is even potentially dangerous in Flashing S-Groove because she’s one of the very few characters who actually has a decent Lvl1.

I personally think that Vice has good moves in general and is very versatile in all of the grooves, except for maybe P-Groove (but that’s when the parrying skills come in) to an extent. She’s simply not strong enough to be considered higher than low-mid tier by the general consensus…but she can still compete. I’ll still keep playing her as I have since the game came out. She’s cool.

54

dhalsim, he’s good/ok against people who don’t use K/P. i dunno about beni but vice and king are bitches. i’ve only seen console scrubs use king but i know what she’s capable of. i’ve also seen a good K groove vice. have you seen her be played ever? i have never. this guy came in using vice knowing that no one knows how to play against her because no one has seen her, and the guy sometimes gets near ocvs. with decent comp too.

55

You don’t need any other supers besides level ones with Vice. No point ever breaking stock (or even using N-groove) with her. Her super is one of those “can’t jump away if you weren’t already… if you were crouching then that’s really too bad”. The range is suprisingly far too. Vice is good.

56

Man, that makes two things i seem to have had false ideas about …

1 - her shoulder seems to be qcf and not hc … this made doing c.jab, c.fierce, xx shoulder xx orochi move a lot easier to do.
2 - I always thought that her kick super was L3 only…

edit: I think today i will pick a-vice a couple of times and get my ass handed to me.

edit: :lol: according to gamefaqs her qcf+kick move should beat fireballs :lol: maybe if rcd… I can never seem to rc that move though.

57

it’s qcb+p actually… :slight_smile:

I always thought her long arm whip move was hcf+k, and not qcf?

Anyhow, one reason why it might be so hard to RC is that vice is cursed with having a not-full-motion special move. Her Nail Bomb is actually b,d/b,d,df+P. So it you try to RC you have to roll at down or you activate the special.

A-Vice is top tier! :slight_smile:

58

ahhhh, that’s why … it just reminded me that I always get her grab instead of her low slash… If I could rc her low slash it would be sick. Anti fireball (even tho the fireball will still probably hit you, lol)

59

Actually N-Vice is probably the best Vice imo. She benefits a ton from run/low jump/roll, and her RC shoulder and hcf grab are really really good. RC roundhouse legs is decent too because it gives frame advantage. She also gets tons of level 1’s to burn. Her RC hcf+p grab is way harder to do consistently than other hcf moves for some reason though…

60

My friend who plays Vice refuses to post in this forum so I’ll relay his knowledge to the world instead.

I find a patient Vice a lot harder to fight than a running or low jumping one. C or A is the best IMO. She can land a CC off HP shoulder for one thing. qcb+HP, CC, s.HK xx qcb+HP, shoulders to the corner… too good :eek: Have you guys seen how much damage CC blade kicks do yet?

She has a jumping jab that does as much damage as a jumping fierce. Vice j.HP --> 1300. Vice j.LP xx qcb+HK --> 1300. It’s also humanly impossible to just defend (set the comp to all JD to see for yourself).

RC shoulder is the best anti-air RC in the entire game. It can’t be airblocked plus it’s completely safe when JD’d.

close s.MP gives you a huge frame advantage. You can safely mix it up with level 1 tick grab, s.HP xx whip/shoulder, or d.HK even (if the opponent wants to jump away).

The reason I think you’re finding RC hcf+p is hard to RC isn’t because you’re messing up, it’s because that special isn’t good to RC with in the first place. At first I didn’t believe it myself (move should be totally invincible right?), then I tested in training mode. Can’t even go through shoryukens never mind supers or anything like that. My theory is that the grab animation (startup and whiff) is too long and combined with Vice’s weird roll (she has invicibilty only above the waist towards the end) makes this move crappy. The hcb, f+P move grabs faster (?) and is a better RC.

…or maybe the incomplete hcf thing might be the totally be the problem too :lol:.

Anyway, I reiterate. Vice is good. It’s great that people think she sucks though :smiley: