Rolento seems to produce funny results.
Cammy and Vegas are unblockable low 100% of the time.
Let it die already. Some people aren’t going to change their beliefs no matter what you tell them.
Unblockable d.MK
First off pick any character vs. C-Ryu. Record dummy Ryu doing level 1 shinku hadoken at point blank range. Stand at complete neutral with your character until you visably see the C-groove super flash from Ryu’s super. Hold db then. See how you’ll block everytime?
The conditions I used for the A-groove test are as follows:
C-Blanka vs dummy A-Rolento
Set dummy to walk forward, then CC, d.MK…
I stood at complete neutral with Blanka and waited for the A-groove CC flash. I started holding db as soon as it was visible. Not a second before, not a second after. I couldn’t block!
I didn’t believe this as first so I re-recorded Rolento doing the above. This time around I could block after visably seeing the flash.
After re-recording a bunch of times (also testing with counter CC activation, roll etc…), my conclusion is this…
Unblockable d.MK IS possible.
You have to be a point blank range and time your d.MK JUST right (as fast as possible out of the CC “flash”). It’s comparable to doing a “just frame” attack in tekken or something. This is most likely character specific as well. I was unable to replicate this at all, nevermind consistently, with Ken for example (I only tried for about 5 minutes though… so maybe it might be).
During the times where the point blank Rolento CC was blockable, I also noticed I was able to crouch low from standing postion after the flash. In those instances, that meant for sure that my timing for the Rolento d.MK after the CC activation must of been off.
During the times where I recorded the unblockable Rolento CC, I was never able to counter activate, roll, or anything.
Does anybody here want to do some more extensive experimentation? Somebody should follow that scientific method shit they teach in high school chemistry class and make a chart or something…
This might be something seriously intersting or potentially game altering. Nobody believed that Chun-li had that messed up hit detection that makes her unable to block any sweeps used as anti-air at first for example.
If there’s seriously an exploitable glitch or something behind this unblockable d.MK phenomenua, then give A-groove another notch up on the ranking ladder :lol:.
On a sorta related note: I’m also starting to think that going back and forth from standing to crounching state and neutral/blocking might not be totally instant like I always thought it was. Sorta like going from stand to jump. There’s a vulnerable frame or two before you leave the ground. Either that or there’s a whole bunch of crazy frames where no inputs are valid etc…
Interesting!
If unblockable cr MK is possible, how about unblockable cr LK? Would that be even easier?
Ahh, perhaps you understand my confusion then… as you clearly say sakura’s s.fierce…:mad: 
I got it…
The answer was obvious all along.
(from buktooth’s systems guide… which he jacked from the japanese guide :lol: )
CC activation must freeze time for at least 4 frames, no more than 5 or 6.
The freeze is the only way to explain how the unblockable would work. While the opponent is “frozen” and unable to input anything (including block), Rolento has just enough time for his 4 frame d.MK to animate and hit fully.
The reason why there’s no way it can be greater than 5 or 6 is because Rolento’s s.LP, CC, d.MK link would be stupidly easy then… which it’s not. It’s probably still a one frame link. Rolento CC, d.MK sure isn’t any Sagat level 3 hotfoot either… where Sagat can unblockable you from practically a full character’s length away.
Techincally, Rolento d.MK hits at the same speed at Sagat hotfoot super. The reason you just can’t go around doing normal mode d.MK’s unblockables is because there’s no convienient 7 frame super freeze to help you out.
This would explain how normally impossible links would work now too. Sakura s.LP, far s.HK should be impossible right? Normally if you try to link that far s.HK you would be at a net frame advantage of like -3. But if you CC after the s.LP, you’ll give yourself an extra 4 frame leeway. Hey hey, all of a sudden you have a net frame advantage of +1 now. The crazy link works and man, that ohayokim guy is pretty good :eek:.
Right, gamblefiend?
No crazy glitches or anything. Just obsessive nerd… I mean, frame data.
I got it…
Hmmm, well, ok lets say it freezes time enough to do impossible links, how does it register as a combo? Just because they cant block does not mean that they remain in hit stun the whole time. Ie ignoring inputs for a certain amount of frames does not mean it will combo. I dont know how to better explain my thoughts.
EDIT: Ie ignoring inputs is not the same sort of frame advantage as hit stun frame advantage? (If you do a level 3 when they are in the air, they cannot input anything but they will still fall, so why would they not return to neutral/block after the CC as it is physics rather than inputs, and if they can return to neutral how does it still register as a combo). They way you are explaining it would seem to be an unblockable “reset” of sorts using CC rather than a combo.
(that’s the way i see it anyway… )
Ok, so buktooth says “additional 1 frame” implying that the frames previous to that 1 frame also ignore inputs. Im not too sure I completey understand his explanation of CC activation though. Perhaps someone else (or even buk himself) could elaborate so I know exactly what is going on?
Also, have you ever activated with rolento against a level 3 hotfoot super? Rolentos c.forward will often beat the hotfoot. This has even happened when my flash finished before his flash.
Sorry about all the half thoughts and questions… but this is not sitting right in my head! :bluu:
EDIT2: I remember in one of gunters a-groove videos he said that activating a CC gives you frame advantage … I wonder if gunter has frame data on this that we dont?
If what kcxj is saying is true that means CC activation causes stun(or more specifically the amount of freeze time is equal the amount of stun time cause by the CC :wtf: )…
When I first started playing this game, I autmatically assumed that CC activation did cause stun…but then was told otherwise from this board and various system guides.
It somewhat does make sense though…for impossible links, 1 frame links that shouldn’t work because of CC startup, the fact I can’t block when someone CC’s right in front of me etc.
this shiet is confusing.
yay… so I’m not the only one. 
One thing to note about DC training mode. I think why it seems inconsistent is because the record feature is slighty off or something.
When trying other precise things in the training mode, it will sometimes NOT do what you recorded, but a slight variation. Something with the timing I guess. Like, one time I was making Sakura do RC FB… every so often she would do kara d.short X FB instead. etc.
Maybe this is why sometimes you can block it/inconsistent results?
Also, if kcxj is right about the frame freeze #… that would mean any move that comes out in 4 frames or less unblockable if not blocking already? I’ve done DP on my friend before that he said he could not block. What if you’re in ducking nuetral state?
Someone needs to go find some crazy links…
Damn this. Although it’s somewhat fun, we shouldn’t have to rely on experiments and make theories and assumptions. We need to get in contact with Capcom and they need to release their documentation. Are the Japanese guides sourced from Capcom, or is it just based on precise experimentation by third parties?
Yeah honestly if there’s a whole book with frame data, and it includes data on CC activation, normal moves, hit/blockstun, frames it takes to go from st to cr, then it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out. Unless some crucial data is missing then the answers are in the book.
From Buktooth’s system guide:
“Custom Combo activation is not instant, which explains why most characters cannot do difficult links with a CC activation in between. For example, good luck trying to get Ryu’s low strong, activate, low forward to combo. Like all conventional supers, CCs have 5 invincible frames of start up BEFORE the “custom flash”. After the flash, there’s an additional 1 frame where no inputs are valid. Whether or not CCs “freeze time” or not like normal supers
is currently unknown?”
so… i guess the book doesn’t say. 5 frames of startup?
i hope im udnerstanding this… but yea scrub, thats why u can use CC anti-air, theyll go through you understand 
yeah I am going to NEC with team Maryland. It felt good to play other people from out of town. You and kcxj made that guy quit CVS2! :lol:(Dude screaming “Cheap/cheese”)!? I look foward to playing Boston again.
see ya at NEC fella’s.
P.S Yo! kcxj… Renagede is a complete “ASS” the hell what Baltimore Chun says.:evil:
No D "out"
You did not hear that from me.:o Good times everyone.:lame:
Um no…
Hmm… Just thought of something tragic posted earlier.
“Ryu/Ken c.LP (+7), CC, c.MK (4 EX) connects…”
Ken d.jab gives +7.
CC has 5 startup >Ching!<, you’re left with +2.
c.MK has 4… but you only have +2 left?
can’t be done?
But it’s easily done. This alone should prove CC frame advantage right?
“I’m almost certain you lose only 1-frame on CC activation…”
CC has 5 startup >Ching!<
but you gain +4 afterward.
There is your 1 frame loss.
Ok… I FINALLY understand it. It was in the math all along. To think it took over a year to figure out why d.mk was unblockable…
Unless I’m missing something (please say no… :))
notice where i have the slashes.
sagat/sakura
s.fierce/s. roundhouse
:’(
this whole cc thingy is weird. good thing i play k groove… ^^
from as far as i tested, i was about to JD the hits… i might have been timing the record wrong… but i think it’s possible.
another question someone else mentioned. why are we only using mk’s? and not shorts? i was testing with sagat’s c.short, btw.
Uh… people should just quit talking about this. It’s going in random directions because people either aren’t reading, or are just making stuff up. People just seem to be pulling random #'s out of nowhere.
Forget it. Everyone go back to Boston Match vid topics!
Yo tragic, some of this discussion deserves it’s own seperate threads if you ask me. “Unblockable CC’s”, “Meaty vs Reversal RC?”, and “kcxj is a cock sucker” would make useful threads on video-opera I think.
Boston CvS2 vids has totally gone hell. What I had orginally planned was to simply post a match video and go over the basics of what’s going on. You know, to help new players get better etc… I had no idea this zoo is what the thread would become though.
I find that random #'s comment slightly offensive btw… :bluu: I spent a lot of time coming up with the post I made. Not my fault that I don’t have a CvS2 book yet.
Also, Trent from FL derserves credit for bringing the d.MK thing to our attention in the first place (boston players at least… dunno what cali players have been up too). Yes, that horrible player who couldn’t do CC’s on the crappy “Final Round” videos. He got a lot better though so that’s all that matters. Plus his friend can eat 10 cheesesteaks within a 2 hour period… therefore Trent is top tier.