^ yeah me too. i guess its similar to the chun matchup, they can both rush you down and put you in a tight spot quick. chun can zone you out just as easily though, but not so much with viper. she’s all specials and no pokes. i think its best to take the initiative when you can, find an opening, get in and do as much damage as possible. that’s kind of how jeron won i think and how you win with bison in this matchup in general. the first match it was kind of a back and forth and in that situation i think viper prevails because she has better albeit simple mixups overall because of her damage/stun output.
i still have trouble reading viper on wakeup. shes got two options to stuff your jump ins, EX burn kick and knuckle and if im on the ground they’ll usually use ex seizmo to get out because from the ground its kind of tricky to punish even though its absolutely possible. its just that window between her invuln frames wearing off to when she hits is quite small.
i suppose. i cant tell if youre being sarcastic or not. if shes good she has no reason not to use a lp thunder knuckle if she predicts scissor loop. even if you just block it’ll just reset the situation. its only -2 on block. i dunno what the properties of this move are though. on the wiki it says 1-15 frames (Translate). does it have invuln frames? also mp thunder knuckle would be viper’s best response, its less startup and its only -1 on block and from a proper distance leaves her far enough away so your cr.lk will whiff and she can counter poke you if she’s expecting it.
anyways her fastest normal comes out in 4 frames, so yeah she has no way of stuffing scissor loops except with specials. anyways if she knows this and she reads you right, theres no reason not to use them. i’d be wary of using scissor loops and abusing standing roundhouse against a good viper. a neutral jump against scissors will lead to a knockdown and more mixups. i’d use them wisely, its not a good idea to just whore them out but they’re definite advantages that should be put to good use in this matchup.
the vid of jeron is a good example of using roundhouse consistently and not just throwing it out there. (look at 4:18. vipers cr. normals have faster startup and will stuff it on startup. can’t use it predictably)
Scissor pressure is godlike in this match up. Roundhouse is Jesus Like in this match up. From talking with FlashMetroid the best way to approach Viper is constant pressure, don’t ever let up. If she blocks your lk scissors(since there isn’t really any reason to use the others for pressure). mix it up between cr. LK and s. RH. If she tries pretty much anything s. RH hits her. cr. lk comes out in 3 frames so if she does anything that comes out in more time than that on the ground you get a free knockdown. if she continues to block congrats you get another free scissors that she can’t do shit about(including ex seismo since active hit frames on scissors also extend past her invuln state.)
In general it’s a very bad idea to jump in on viper so just approach her from the ground. If you are reading an ex seismo and you got charge you can ex scissors as well if you time it correctly.
Obviously you should never just blindly throw shit out(i thought that was implied knowledge upon entering a competitive scene ). And most of this is about reading your opponents tendencies and adapting, but irregardless of who is playing viper lk. scissor and RH are your best tools.
PS
I was talking about lp thunder going under roundhouse(my bad should have been more clear). Scissor loop kills thunder knuckle based on frame data(cr. lk 3 frame start up vs. lp tk 16 frame start up.) in fact based purely on frame data if she blocks a scissors she has nothing that beats a cr. lk as her fastes move is 4 frame start up)
Just watched the jeron video and it’s a perfect example of how bad this match up is for viper. if you watch a lot of flashM vids you will see more often than not he’s very offensive(even by the first round of that match) but just the fear of getting tagged by bisons insanely good normals shuts down vipers options which is why you see vipers not doing a whole lot in this match up.
and i was confused because this was the extent of your post:
I was confused because i couldn’t tell if it was sarcasm because of the way you put it. to me you make it sound braindead simple which its not. its still really a 50/50 in a pressure situation, maybe slightly more in bison’s favor. she has to guess right but for every option you have she has a good defensive option. of course just throwing things out is a bad idea but you have to admit your quote posted above is a bit misleading in terms of advice. if someone was new to the competitive fighting scene and read that post they’d probably assume you did mean to just throw that shit out and its a win button, which its not. It’s like going to a Gief thread and reading someone say “Lariat spam is pro shit in X matchup”. It just sounds silly even if it might be true. but i appreciate your more fleshed out post. we’re in agreement.
lol things are easier said than done. So how did you do DarkTrey against flash with this piece of advice? Both her worst match ups are 6-4 supposedly but Honda has a couple things going for him that Bison does not.
More Health
More Damage
And is harder to cross up
Scissor pressure is just that pressure it does not always equal damage especially for Bison in this game. Sure if the viper doesn’t know how to block and presses buttons but if they do?Viper does more damage and stun along with multiple setups into ultra, and if you ask Flash about blocking her cross ups his advice is going to be “guess”.Asked Marn the same thing when he was here he said the same thing.It is in Bisons favor but you need more than lk sk loop and hk spam to win against competent vipers much less players of flash’s caliber.Viper only needs two combos to dizzy then score an ultra.Which means you can outplay a Viper and still go home with the mortons.It’s not so simple.
gg’s fightclubnearu! a few of our matches didnt get recorded so i just picked 4 of the best matches we had in our set. (5-4 fightclubnearu)
Feedback is welcome, but keep in mind lag was a factor for both of us so a few combos aint look too pretty, and these are bison mirrors so stuff that we can get away with on each other won?t happen against shoto’s n such.
Found some vids of andre’s bison in a recent tournament just thought id post em up. I believe its Grand finals vs Dieminion (GUILE) One of the best guile players in the states. Tough match for bison. 3 parts.
Here is wao- a very high ranked Japanese Ken player playing as dictator. He’s pretty good
vs Claw
[media=youtube]CT7ZlgHBAqQ[/media]
vs Ryu
[media=youtube]sXek2QaT8f8[/media]
vs Viper- he does awful in this one. It’s clear here he is still learning the character. IMO you can’t let viper come to you as Dictator, have to clamp her down yourself.
). And most of this is about reading your opponents tendencies and adapting, but irregardless of who is playing viper lk. scissor and RH are your best tools.