Bison Labwork: setups, option-selects and unblockables (updated 4/2013)

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BTW, I learn that there is way to make bison jump in os dash back whiff/don’t work

is dash + 4 input (LK+LP+MK+MP)

it work as jump in and stop you os them for just simple dash back

when bison safe jump:
he block first hit—> input back dash + 4 input at same time
so computer read it:

if you tick throw
it will not work, your throw will whiff because input already read focus dash back, so it hit once and he gets away.

if you just throw
it will not work, because lp/lk input it will read and tec the throw, game goes on and he gets away.

if you focus
you will get throw

if you OS st.lp/ st.hk
st.hk never comes out because st.lp is not whiff, so you keep input and it comes out after first one, since dash back is invincible in few frame this not work ether.
he gets away.

OS st.lp cr.HK
I try it, I think HK will be block because is so slow…

let me know what you find regarding this, I think this is real…because I see someone is using it and I being play someone use this all the time
while I find desperate need for safe jump but they get away and reset the situation so effortlessly. I can’t give them pressure if they keep running away
from forward throw/jump in…

Interesting tech I saw this morning … dogura, I think, was on the NSB stream and was doing throw into empty DR (which “crosses up”) into meaty autocorrect EX PC. The PC doesn’t cross up, but he was still catching people with it…

I

Funny you say that. I accidentally came across this whilst testing some set-ups off empty DR.

If you do a front throw on the right side of the screen, hold right as you throw, Empty H DR to cross-up then move the joystick left with 2Punches. So essentially what you’re doing is crossing them up and doing an EX PC. I think it catches people off guard because they don’t expect you to have charge when your cross them up, so if they throw out a normal they are gonna eat that damage.

What I’ve also found is this set-up actually is safe vs 3 frame reversal DPs. When I tested this the DPs actually went over the EX PC, try this in training mode. That is if they even manage to get the dragon punch out as the set-up is pretty difficult to reversal DP too as you cross them up.

I’m not sure how useful this is, in my opinion this is at best a gimmick as you’re wasting 1 bar which could be used far more effectively. However I thought it was pretty cool when I tested it as a one off option.

Yeah, I listed that setup in the crossup pc section, even though I feel like it’s more of a gimmick. Corpse hopping with empty dr is most reliable with back throw, but I think front throw will work too if done from the corner.

You can also auto correct ultra, but the freeze makes it hard to bait any inputs from the opponent.

this is probably the tastiest thing in the thread so far

lots of applications on lots of characters i tested it on

forward dash under that fake setup

yes so mix up with fake jump st hk :wink:

well the actual beauty of this set up is that you can OS with it, so no need to “fake” anything. that said after testing with the setup it’s not nearly as good as i thought it was :frowning:

the characters that it works on can easily escape it if they know how. the plus side is that the opponent probably won’t know how to escape it.

if you OS a normal you’ll beat their dash escapes. if you OS a back throw you’ll beat their hitbox escapes (using a normal to lower their hitboxes) and put them into the same situation. the problems with the setup are that they can 1) well time an auto-correct upper, 2) well time an auto-correct super, 3) [some can] well time an auto-correct ultra… and the biggest issue is that they can actually just duck the set up altogether and tech if you OS throw.

all in all it’s still something to add to the repertoire

1.you can do this setup with j.mk. it has more active frames so people can’t duck it/forwarddash it.
2.if people duck this setup you simply time it wrong.

ryu can’t dp the j.hk setup but if you go for the j.mk he will get a free trade dp.

ken on the other hand can dash out of the j.hk setup so always use j.mk. ken also can’t reversal it.

ibuki can dash out of it with hk.command dash for free, you can’t os it. so only use that setup if they don’t know about it :p.(j.mk is much easier to time)

makoto can reversal the j.mk with lp.dp. but j.hk is a safe crossup. so you can punish her. punish backdash/forewarddash with os. st.hk

akuma can’t reveral dp but it’s hard to punish his teleport.

chunli can reveral ex sbk with meter, and can forwarddash out of the j.hk setup. if you do the j.mk setup she can block both sides(l0l) but it punishes the forward dash attempt. so only use it if she has no meter and option select st.hk to punish backdash. only go for j.mk setup if you know that she will forewarddash out of it.

viper cannot do anything against the the j.hk unblockable.

guy can’t do anything against j.hk if he has no meter. if he has, he can just reversal you.

eryu can’t uppercut your j.hk/ forewarddash/backdash gets punished by os st.hk. look for the teleport

rufus can’t do anything agaisnt that setup with j.hk

oni can’t do anything :o

fei can reversal the hk unblockable/ fdash out of it, even against j.mk


that much about the dash setup. however there are more unblockables. the best one i found is probably vs boxer

boxer: foreward throw->walk up and j.hp. im sorry i can’t make a vid for it. his dash punches can be punished by os.hk. if he foreward dashes, he blocks your os.rh. but you can os throw to grab him :).

seth: backthrow walk up and j.hk. sometimes seth can reversal dp it sometimes not needs more testing. definatly usefull :eek:

yang: forward throw->walk up and j.hp: walktime is different between boxer and yang. but it’s safe against reversal dp. sometimes you can os throw vs ex comand dash

cammy/guile: already mentioned in the first post.


another thing is that after foreward throw in the left corner, if you wiff cr.mk/cr.mp and do a j. hp it hits crossup against most of the cast but you land in front of him. so he has to switch sides while blocking. its almost always unsafe against characters with an uppercut but it sometimes messes with the inputs, so cammy for example has to mash down back to get the reversal dp its different from character to character though.
if you do j.hk/mk. you btw. land in the back.

i think all reversal moves will automaticaly autocorrect but you can punish some of them. like abel roll or boxer headbut/dashpunch

also against big characters: if you do a j.lk it will cross up. lol

this is next thing I try to learn.
but 2 hit on block?? AND IS SAFE???
I remember if 1 hit on block is mostly safe, you can throw, wait a sec and tic throw, wait a sec EX PC, walk back cr.mp/cr.mk, walk back little st.fierce.
st.fierce works very well on some situation especially after you throw them tons of times…
what am I missing here?
I do:
LK scissor, walk back a little, LP psycho. 1 hit is safe, if is 2 I normally gets punished.
MK scissor cr and wait , LP psycho same result as above.
if range is right is gonna be 1 hit and is safe? or I did it wrong?

need proper description on these mechanic, I did these because I saw it in video and I don’t know why they did I just copy what those good player did, and it work…sadly I never know proper mechanic behind it so when I make mistake is huge.

I call this Deep Psycho: You try to make Psycho through your enemy. You touch their torso with your waist. Must be within the first 12f of attack. If done correctly (and it’s really not difficult to do so), the second hit will be done by Bison’s legs, pushing them away. Not even Ryu’s HP Shinkuu or Dhalsim’s S.HP punishes this (really few actually do something about it). Because Bison has hitbox in his legs, but no hurtbox at all, this setup is safe against reversals. They simply whiff. Some, like Cannon Spike, are stuffed.

This one can be upgraded. Hit them with the exact intersection of torso/legs hitbox and it gains even more qualities: it hits as a Crossup. Retains 140 damage and is impossible to autocorrect. Lariats and EX SBK won’t hit you either.

From LK Scissors you can:
LP Psycho - Meaty. 1 Hit. If you hit them with Psycho’s last active frame, you’re at +2.
MP Psycho - Possible to get Deep Psycho. Unsafe on block from this distance.
HP Psycho - Possible to get Deep or Cross Psycho. Depends on initial scissors range.

I usually try to get those crossup Deep Psycho from Cr.HK, strings ended with Psycho LP, J.MP, Cr.MPxPsycho LP and EX Headpress.

VERY NICE! NOW I UNDERSTAND!
I think LK scissor can do HP psycho, and HK scissor can do LP psycho if they try to block other side, this I have not test yet, nor I see people did…
funny part is most combo start 2lp 5lp 2mk, cr.mk=2mk is very interesting application on either landing or crumble.
and this thanks to m16ghost who collect those data.

But from how hard to tell is cross up or not, after LK scissor:

LP Psycho, easy to tell, most of time if you do this FIRST time it gets block.
MP Psycho, Hardest actually, is REALLY HARD to tell if you hit them front or back,
I think if mix up with LP psycho is very very good since is a cross up if you do it fastest??

HP Psycho, I don’t use it, is easy to gets punish by any reversal, like auto correct DP, If I have meter I do this as EX PC,

BUT, I see Kim1234 using EX PC cancel to go over gen while he got U1, can GEN U1 PUNISH BLOCK EX PC O.o, if so that his U1 is that fast start up?

Cool thing about psycho is if you did after slide you can cancel it on 1st hit, I did it sometime and I think hit stun is pretty cool, enough to make them
think you gonna throw them, you can either bait their move out or give them sweetness of st.fierce counter hit :stuck_out_tongue:

[media=youtube]e_QsgibfV6c[/media]

@1.40

Kneepress, cross with psycho then ultra II interesting set up.

This is SSF4, not AE
In AE, just do knee press > ultra 2. Less execution.

Gen’s Ultra 1 can’t punish EX Psycho. His Super can.

You don’t think using the psycho crusha to get closer makes it harder to see which side to block? After all the air time and jump arc are noticeably smaller

Or does the charge motion make that set up impossible? I have not tested

The charge motion makes that impossible. It’s already possible to make it difficult to see which side it’s gonna be just by touching briefly a direction in the last moment.
If this doesn’t please you, always aim for their head. Let the collision boxes decide where Bison will fall.

Understood, I dislike 50 50 set ups anyway, especially when I have to use them.

By the way : With Bison if you wiggle your stick between back and down back in a very fast motion, not only will you look really flashy, but you will be in a situation where you can very slowly adjust your spacing backwards ( Useful against characters like Hawk and Zangief ) so you can Knee Press and poke more efficiently, this way you will naturally maintain your charge and you will be pre buffering your escape teleport animation, so you can execute it with one back+3k or 3p to run away from a condor dive or a greenhand.

I’ve seen Kim and some other players do this from time to time, not really useful in any match up where you want to move forward but in keep away situations its not a bad way to keep your options available

good against characters where you need to be in good position to AA, like Rog and Honda too.

Sudden dash back get punish by Honda head butt…
but I need that dash back to punish his jump in, what should I do? now even dash back is painful…
I hate to said but in the place that you suffer MISJUDGE to whiff punish, the tendency window is small but seems too many jump will get you.

that is why I learn from happy medicine video, his AA is superb and farm that damage is way to go…