huh?
I’m on GGPO everynight.
Savestates cant be used.
Also, the latest update doesnt let me play myself.
There is an executable in the GGPO directory named “ggpofba.exe” or something that is an emulator and should allow save states just like Nabula, MAME, Kawaks or whatever.
:wtf:
Since when does what kick you press change anything about the Headstomp properties?
Players have been alleging this for a long time now. It was brought up again in the HDR Dictator thread but nothing concrete was ever proven. I sat down with my CPSII board one day and tested out all three strength headstomps from various distances against various characters in various states (crouching, waking up, jumping). And just eyeballing it I found nothing definitive that would suggest any difference between the three strengths of headstomp.
It looked as if Dictator traveled the same speed, same trajectory, and recovered from headstomp in the same way no matter which strength headstomp I used.
Here’s one of the tests I did. I chose Dictator as the 1P side, Ken as the 2P side, I used my wallet to prop the 2P joystick on my Astro City to walk Ken backwards towards the right of the screen until he was at the corner and kept him there walking back (so he could block the headstomps). Then I walked Dictator as far back as he could go on the 1P side and put him in crouch. I did a headstomp for each strength using the d,u+k command each time from that distance. After I performed the headstomp I stopped touching the joystick and eyeballed where he landed. It looked as if it was the exact same spot that he recovered at each time. The trajectories looked the same as well as the speed.
If there are differences they certainly eluded me. I would love to see something conclusive with hard evidence.
I’m convinced that people think the different strengths of headstomp have different properties because of button layout on the control panels. It takes a split second difference for most people to press short, forward, or roundhouse. Those few frames difference between using your thumb, index, ring finger, or whatever finger to press a different strength button might cause the headstomp to come out earlier or later.
What I mean is, let’s say you knock your opponent down, and you want to meaty headstomp them. Because of the that way your hand is positioned, you might strike the short kick button a frame or so earlier, than you would the forward kick button. So let’s say you knock your opponent down, and do a headstomp with short kick, and you fly over your opponent as they are getting up (meaning the headstomp whiffs). You might have done it just a bit too early. Now let’s say you knock your opponent down again but this time you hit forward kick for a headstomp. Now because of the positioning of your fingers across the control panel that forward strength headstomp might come out a frame or two later…meaning the trajectory will be different. The trajectory will be different because the headstomp auto tracks your opponent. Doing a headstomp at different points during a wakeup animation will get you different trajectories. It seems people might be confusing this with the (unproven?) theory of ‘different kick strengths give different headstomps’.
Does this make sense? Again if I’m wrong I would love some closure to this question as it was one of the things in the HDR Dictator thread that no one really had a solid answer to.
It changes the height he flies up before landing. I almost always use lk head stomp because I find it misses least(?).
Interesting stuff there VirtuaFighter. Have you tested whether or not using an up-forward or up-back position for head stomp influences anything like it does for DR. I’ve been using up-back lk head stomp for a while now and I was convinced that it decreased my chance of missing and just floating over, but my missing less may be due to some other reason.
Again, going from down to up, up+back, or up+forward, is three different lenghts for your left hand to travel. You might have the muscle memory timing down perfectly for the down to up+back direction for headstomps, and for the other two directions, your timing might be off (resulting in your missing headstomps).
The only difference I’ve found with what direction you end the headstomp command in is isn’t directly related to the headstomp but related to keeping charge. I’ll explain it in detail below. It’s actually a neat trick.
Let’s say I’m playing Dictator and my opponent is playing Guile. I’ve just knocked my opponent down, I have a full SUPER meter, and I’m going to headstomp him when he wakes up. I’m on the 1P side and he’s on the 2P side waking up.
Using :d:,:u:+:k: will work, it’s a headstomp, if timed correctly it will land.
However :d:,:ub:+:k: is a much better alternative. Why?
If you headstomp in this situation and end the motion in up+back and keep holding back as you land you’ll land with your backwards charge. The problem though is that if you hold back to preserve charge, after the headstomp, Dictator will travel all the way back opposite from the opponent.
So how do you headstomp your opponent, preserve backwards charge, and land close to your opponent?
The answer is the followup (skull driver or whatever it’s called) to headstomp.
If you input :d:,:ub:+:k: for the headstomp, and then continue to hold :l: after the headstomp you’ll land far away, yet if right after the headstomp you hit :p: the followup will come out. Followup sinks you like a bag of bricks. You’ll land close to your opponent, keep your charge, and now you can threaten a SUPER from close range as opposed to full screen.
:d:,:ub:+:k:, :l: (hold), :p:, land. Now if you land and don’t want to immediately SUPER then hold :db: of course. I’ve seen a few Japanese players use it. I can’t remember any videos of it happening off hand but if I see one I’ll edit this post in the future.
I definitely agree that Head Stomp trajectory is not affected by button strength or by directional input, but by timing. If somebody were to prove that different trajectories are caused by opponent positioning, I’d agree with that. If an opponent is crouching, Dictator flies low to the ground. If an opponent is airborne, Dictator flies super high. I don’t think it has a “homing in” property, though sometimes it seems to “home in” well esp vs aerial opponents. I think that whichever frame the button is input on, the game aims Dictator’s feet towards the top most vulnerable area of the opponent during that frame. If that vulnerable hitbox moves on the next frame, and moves significantly enough, that’s when I think Dictator whiffs.
I’ve tried to make Head Stomps whiff when I’m playing vs Dictator by moving forward as soon as I see a Stomp, but this hasn’t worked. Maybe it just randomly whiffs every once in a while? Or maybe the opponent has to move at the last second before impact, as opposed to as soon as the Stomp is airborne? IDK, definitely needs to be figured it out.
This is wrong and…
…and here below there is the right answer
However this is hard to see if you just watch the screen.
You can check this when you do a head press on a fireball and the opponent try to duck for dodging, if you do the hd lk is more easy to hit him if you do the hp hk is hard and usually you miss the target, on the other way when the opponent jump back and you do a hd lk is more easy that you get hit by a counterattack but if you do the hp hk you can hit him from above.
so the question is how to make the hp whiff: before we should see how the hp system works: when u complete the input pressing the kick botton you start a parabola more or less curved (this depends from the kick botton u used) to the opponent head. After this if you play vs vega and you want to make he whiff you have to change position when vega player finish the input and start the leap, the easiest way is to duck and dodge, this doesn’t work if you are in the corner because the hp fly over then stops to the screen corner and fall over your head, that’s why for example it’s a mistake to do a hp vs dhalsim but it’s ok if he is in the corner.
I’ll test this using an emulator running the Japanese version of ST on Turbo 2 (too lazy to do this on my actual CPSII board), here are the results for the headstomp versus every character standing and crouching.
Ryu:
-
Dictator in corner, Ryu as far away as he can be, crouching
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
[*]roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
[/LIST] -
Ryu in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time, hits in front of Ryu
[]forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
[/LIST] -
Ryu (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time, lands very close to Ryu
[]forward headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
[*]roundhouse headstomp misses and flies over Ryu
[/LIST] -
Ryu (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu’s stage
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time, hits right in front of Ryu’s face
[]forward headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him
[*]roundhouse headstomp misses and flies barely over Ryu landing next to him
[/LIST] -
Ryu (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
[]forward headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time, hits right on top of Ryu
[/LIST] -
Ryu (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST]
So with Ryu, you can avoid (or duck under) the forward and roundhouse strength headstomps from a few distances, the short strength headstomp will consistently connect though. Realistically it is impossible in the middle of a match to know which strength headstmop that your opponent is using. So if your opponent knows to use the short strength headstomp and you try to duck under it you’ll end up losing that exchange. However opponents who like to piano or vary their headstomps could expose themselves to a whiffed moved if their opponent tries to duck the headstomp. Standing however, as the opponent, and you will not be able to avoid a headstomp at any distance. If you replace Ryu with Ken the results are the same as well. So Ryu and Ken have a special advantage compared to the rest of the cast who I individually tested below.
Zangief:
-
Dictator in corner, Zangief as far away as he can be, crouching
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST] -
Zangief in corner crouching, Dictator as far away as he can be
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST] -
Zangief (crouching) and Dictator as far apart as possible yet far away from the corners (so both midscreen and separated)
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST] -
Zangief (crouching) separated from Dictator by one panel on Ryu’s stage
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST] -
Zangief (crouching) with Dictator point blank next to him
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST] -
Zangief (standing) anywhere, Dictator at any distance
[LIST]
[]short headstomp connects every time
[]forward headstomp connects every time
[*]roundhouse headstomp connects every time
[/LIST]
So against Zangief the headstomps, no matter what strength, no matter what distance, nor if Zangief is standing or crouching, will always connect. While the trajectories might be different, though difficult to see, they are insignificant in this match in that they all eventually connect no matter what. You can substitute Boxer, Dhalsim, Claw, T.Hawk, Fei Long, Blanka, Honda, Cammy, DeeJay, Sagat, Chun, Guile and even Dictator himself in for Zangief for all these tests as well. Every character but Ryu and Ken must block headstomps.
Obviously if you knock your opponent down and perform the headstomp command too early, you’ll land before your opponent even gets up, meaning a whiff is possible on a waking opponent no matter who they are. Standing opponents as well as seem to equally track a headstomp regardless of what strength command was used to perform the special attack. However, Ryu and Ken (lucky bastards!) seem to have the unique ability to evade certain strength headstomps (forward and roundhouse) at certain distances by simply crouching in place.
Now it is possible to perform a headstomp while an opponent is standing, then have that opponent duck, and then the headstomp flies over and whiffs. So for example, I have two Dictator players, both as far apart as they can be midscreen, one is standing, one is crouching. The crouching Dictator performs a headstomp, the standing Dictator keeps standing, and gets hit. I reset the save state, and have the one Dictator perform a headstomp again, I have the other crouch immediately while the headstomp is taking off from the ground, the opposing Dictator holds crouch, the headstomp (no matter the strength) flies right over the crouched Dictator. Now, if I perform a headstomp, then the opposing Dictator rapidly goes from crouching to standing several times in a row (by mashing the joystick between down and neutral), the headstomp flies right over the opposing Dictator if he is crouching but if you stand back up you’ll get caught in the headstomps trajectory and take the hit.
I had Dictator headstomp point blank next to standing Zangief, and no matter when Zangief crouched after the headstomp was performed, he ate the headstomp every time. Yet if I tried to headstomp a standing Zangief midscreen when he was standing, and then he crouched, the headstomps would whiff if Zangief crouched fast enough. If Zangief was crouching midscreen, I perform a headstomp, then Zangief stood up and crouched again, the headstomp would connect no matter what.
So standing opponents, as long as they are not in the corner, can duck under headstomps if they quickly crouch. The headstomp will track them as if they are standing, so if they remain crouched, Dictator will fly right over them.
The biggest difference is that while all characters that are standing can try to duck under any strength headstomp, Ryu and Ken can crouch for the entire duration of forward and roundhouse strength headstomps (from certain distances) and avoid them altogether.
I don’t know how much further testing this needs. The headstomps are different though (though only noticeable on Ryu and Ken really). And tricky opponents can try to duck under headstomps (I’ll see if I can find some videos where this happens).
Nice post i want only to add that is quite easy with dhalsim make the hp whiff ducking from middle and long distance and in japan also low level dhalsim know that.
for the devil reverse, how do you control how high or how low he goes up?
the hight depends where is the opponent head when you finish the input, if he is on the ground is a normal dr if in the air a high dr.
ShortP, i want to believe you there.
…I have noticed lately that my headstomping is a bit delayed, giving some people the impression that they have time to reversal it.
And sometimes, not even a reversal because it takes so long.
thanks VF4 for the playtesting.
Now i can continue tap-dancing on heads with the added knowledge.
How can Dic deal with Ryu/Ken j.HK if they jump from relatively close? From far away I can n.j.HK on reaction, but if they jump at 45 or closer I have a lot of trouble taking them off of me. Ken is especially nasty with his throw mixups.
Any suggestions?
I asked a very similar question in the HDR forum about a week ago (although mine was broader in scope). There were several answers, so head over there and check it out. Hope that helps!
short answer:
- block and read his next attack:
a) shoryuken — block again
b) knee bash ---- counter throw
Btw this is hard to do. - try jb.mp hitting the mp botton as soon as possible when u jump back, if u miss the timing u can try to jump back again when he crossed back side and jump again. Also the jb.lk can work but is better against other character (dj)
- try a slide under his jump
Don’t do:
js. hk, jf.mp or c.hp because they need that u start the attack before the attack u want to counter. Of course don’t do also knee press or psycho crusher.
That’s all.
Thanks for the input, I found that j.b.HK works pretty well.
Damn i think i hate DeeJay the most out of bad matchups for Dic.
At least Chun Li has low health.
And i know that Honda can win because he’s fat and stupid…in fighting games that means you are unstoppable.
But DJ…he doesnt make sense!
He has high priority on every normal, and to top it off his jumping light normals are nearly as good as Chun’s!
:mad:
Fireball, slide, cr. fp
Thats all he needs.
If you jump over fireball you get mp anti-aired, or that aa special.
Also,
What can stop the c.fp?
Dic cant hk, mk, or slide under it.
Even shorter answer:
Stand there.
Pray.
