Neutral doesn’t exist in this game, son. This game is full of shit that travels horizontally, is quick as hell and safe on block. An example? Urien’s EX tackle, that’s -2 on block with the new patch.
There was plenty of neutral on display in the top 8 Sonic boom do people really think Urien is that dominate at high level? If so why are his results so poor? Definitely couldn’t have any weaknesses no way 
Li Joe and Gootecks are not that great if you are referring to poor results based on these dudes. Look at Nemo.
Like I stated before. Look at the players that have won with Birdie recently and you’ll see Ex.headbutt was used plentyful.
But Id give up the 1frame armor and safe bullhead for his OG penguin dive, overhead and 6hp.
So yeah loosing ex bullhead is not going to kill him either
Do you think Urien is the only character who can skip neutral? Karin, Laura, Ken, Balrog etc etc
This game is full of rushdown characters. Their movesets are full of cheap moves, safe on block, too fast to block on reaction etc
Problem X didn’t win with Birdie, he used Dictator to beat Wong. Without Dictator he wouldn’t have won the tournament.
If you want to use Birdie, you need a second character.
The question I posed to you was about his legit offensive options. You couldn’t provide an answer that made sense because you either A) wanted to argue for the sake of it or B) have no idea what the hell you’re talking about.
Either way, if I wanted to play a real rush down character, then yes, I’d drop Birdie entirely. That isn’t what I’m considering or advocating. I enjoy playing Birdie and won’t drop him regardless. My issue is with Capcom taking away a really strong offensive option while the rest of the cast enjoys tools that help them in that manner.
The problem is you’re so obsessed with horizontal safe on block specials you don’t believe anything else is a legitimate offensive tool give me an example from another character then because calling Birdies command grab a neutral tool makes no sense
Inb4 dive kick lol
Ok, no problem. Firstly before I get into the examples you’re asking for, I think it’s important to explain what I mean by a legitimate offensive option. I believe you’re getting confused and that’s contributing to you arguing for the sake of it.
When I’ve posted about a legit offensive option, I obviously mean a move that’s safe on block and puts a character in a position closer to their opponent regardless if they lose their turn or not. You might have a different definition but this is what I believe to be a true offensive option.
So, with that in mind, I’m going to give you some moves off the top of my head that fits my criteria.
Balrogs ex dash punch. Laura’s lp elbow. Alex’s new lp elbow. Uriens ex tackle. Karin’s orochi. Cammys v skill. Rashid spinning mixer. Mika’s charged st. HK.
I am sure I’ve missed some but did you notice something about the characters I listed? They are, arguably, higher on the tier list than Birdie. But that is another argument, for another day.
Now, do I think his command grab isn’t offensive? Of course not. It is. But per my criteria, it doesn’t compare to the moves listed above. Why? Well, if you whiff a command throw then have fun eating a full punish and, more than likely, be forced to guess correctly whether to block, tech a throw, or jump. He has no real defensive option. Even after the buff to ex bull horn.
Imo Birdie will still be top 10 somewhere in the 5-10 range in 2.5 Although these moves are strong they most certainly aren’t necessarily to compete and Birdies tools are more than enough I would argue his placement could improve the only issue being Guile imo
Definitely wouldn’t list Cammy Vskill though it’s too easy to stuff of reaction imo
I hope there’s hidden changes we aren’t aware of yet. I played him a little bit in the recent beta. He felt the same except my ex bullheads were punished. It forced me to play really defensive, poking from afar and trying to hold a life lead while making any and all conversions count. And that’s exactly how Capcom wants this character to be played in my opinion. Which is fine if the meta of this game wasn’t predicated on oppressive offense.
I completely disagree on top ten.
Not shit tier but not top ten at all.
But then again Im a veteran scrub haha (my reactions are slow
Birdie might be top 15 with the changes. Top 10 without them.
Which matchups do you guys think will become harder for Birdie with the upcoming patch? I think Guile will be a nightmare. Cammy and Ibuki a little harder.
Birdie beats Cammy and Ibuki in my opinion. I think the Guile match up will be about the same. The Sim match up will be tougher.
They put Birdie in the wrong game. He should be in SF IV. This is a game dominated by rushdown chars, unless you have a projectile with no recovery. Besides Guile has a safer mixup than Birdie’s
Birdie has too many crappy moves when he should have few good ones
i think cammy beats birdie in this season (6-4 in cammys favor), because she can press s.mp all over the place and birdie can do nothing, also the neutral is difficult because cammy divekicks are hard to anti air.
i think in the new balance patch, boxer, bison, cammy, mika, laura, rashid, ibuki, fang, gief, karin and akuma becomes better for birdie. guile, nash and sim becomes harder.
Bull horn blows up any blockstring started with St. MP. Cammy can’t do much to Birdie unless she corners him. You can literally spam St. HK and if she times.to challenge with any button, it becomes CC city
Besides the hidden changes I mentioned earlier, there aren’t any other significant changes since the beta. (some visual changes, renaming files like 2MK_yobi to 2MK_2017, visual hitbox effects,…)
I usually find these hidden changes thanks to highlighting the differences between version x (previous version) and version y (latest version).
Thankfully Toolassissted usually does this work already for us and uploads it online, (though usually untranslated to the human tongue).
I suppose it means Birdie won’t absorb or get hit on startup of ex bullhorn against attacks that only hit high.
As an example, Birdie could probably get hit out of ex bullhorn on startup by a random tatsu while crouching.
2.0 ex bullhorn: http://i.imgur.com/zYQb2WN.png
2.5 ex bullhorn: http://i.imgur.com/vTWDKTy.png
Birdie can’t use sMK and sHK against Zangief’s new counter.
It’s still a good matchup, ma sHK is not as safe as before