I’m having a discussion with someone on EH and thought I would point out Birdie’s anti projectile options. Dude thinks Birdie’s options aren’t good. The way I see it, Birdie’s anti projectile options are based on range to his opponent. They change based off of where he is, but they’re all still good and you can react to the projectile with the proper punish.
Up close, around say ryu c.mk range to about Birdie’s c.mk range, you can react to a FB with any regular bull horns. You even see Hagejin doing this recently in that tourney. These weren’t reads, he was reacting to the FB.
Once you’re further away from your opponent where bull horn doesn’t work, you want to use f+HP. This move works from really far away, about 1/2 screen. It’s simple to react to any FB at this range and hit your opponent. Around this range you can also react to a FB with EX bull horn, or super but those are meter dependent. At around this range, I think you’re supposed to be able to use df+HP but this move kind of sucks and requires anticipation for it to work. It’s probably his hardest to use anti projectile move, which is probably why it’s a little more safe on block than the others.
When you get even further away from your opponent where f+HP doesn’t work, you can react to FB’s with hanging chain. EX version having faster startup is even better to use here.
Even further out from hanging chain distance, I guess you could possibly use bull revenger, but I think this requires a little more of an anticipation than a reaction.
So there’s this huge range where Birdie can counter projectiles on reaction quite well. Most of these options I based off Ryu’s projectile. When fighting someone like Nash, you might have to change up your options a bit, or slow down your reactions because of the startup/recovery on his projectiles, but it’s all the same idea. Sometimes I’ll do f+HP too early because of how slow the startup is on Nash’s projectile. In time, this won’t be a problem though.
Yea I see birdie having great anti projectile tools (more so Ryu then Nash, still had trouble with the ranges and Nash’s recovery). What works so much in his favor is the plethora of tools at his disposal, I can’t think of another character that has more ways around projectiles.
Something I noticed in game not sure if it was range being off or something else, was anyone able to get bull ravenger to connect after getting someone with the can? I could have sworn at least twice I came down on someone with the grab but they were still in the can hit animation and ravenger whiffs.
**Bull Charge **(f+HP)
Imo, the hardest option he has. The armor duration is really short, takes a bit before it activates and also goes away before he moves. It’s difficult to do this on reaction without getting a counterhit. It’s also dangerous if you do it from too far and whiff.
Bull Slider (df+HP)
It’s much easier to use compared to previous Betas. It’s best used when making a prediction because it’s amazing in its later frames. Can also be used to surprise Nash and prevent him from walking forward after sonic boom from a distance. Unlike Bull charge, you don’t have to worry about throwing this out too early.
EX Hanging Chain
It’s pretty useful and fast when used closer than max range. It also destroys fireballs so u’ll be safe while the chain is traveling to catch the opponent. The normal chains have to be mainly used as a prediction since it has a much slower startup than EX and doesn’t destroy fireballs.
EX Bullhorn
This goes really far, but doesn’t connect fully when used from max range. It also has a slow startup and a soso travel speed. The opponents tend to defend in time if u try to use it on reaction if u aren’t close, I feel like it’s easier to do regular bullhorns compared to EX.
Vtrigger EX Bullhead
Easiest to use since it has full armor, best travel speed and starts up fast.
I won´t even consider bull charge an anti fb option, you have to do it as a read, very close and it´s super unsafe on block. If you have bull horn charged there is no reason to use this because it will punish the fb at the same ranges.
I wanted to do some thoughts about this character from all the stuff I tested with the beta
I got a lot of mileage from st. lp xx qcf lp to challenge pressure strings where I felt like there was a normal that was was somewhat minus on block. I got a good bit of counterhits and aided in get off me situations. I found myself using v-reversal often as a get off me tool.
I was watching footage of Nutrient and he was throwing banana peel from about two character lengths out. Opponents would jump, he would block the jump in, and the opponent would get tripguarded by the banana leading to a full combo. Something to think about.
One thing I started looking into that may not play out till months after the game is fully out, is considering which button/buttons to hold for bull head. I’m not sure of how much charge time you need, but of you were to say be in a situation that you would need a comeback, you could do get a st. mp/cr. hp xx bullhead xx VT xx ender depending on meter. I also think that bullhead leaves you close to an opponent which can be useful in some matchups but then you have to think to charge for it and you have to be closeish to utilize it. Like things like jump in/ground normal~hold different button could be used to increase damage or to punish jump outs in the future.
Corner play I got some good mileage using st. mp and cr. hp target combo for anti jump things when you got them scared of st. lk tick command grab. Bullhead is also viable. I feel like if you have the charge since you can just let go at the peak of their jump and punish.
I really like this character and am excited to play and explore him further. I hadn’t read the thread fully so I apologize if some of this has been repeated info. I found a lot of character matchup esque things too if anyone wants to hear about it.
I was wondering about which button to charge also, my dual modded stick wont work on SFV. So I bought the Hori Fighting Commander 4 pad to play on for now while I try to sell my old stick to buy a new one. Anyone that uses that pad could give any insight on how to charge for a bull horn similiar to codys zonk knuckle?
By holding LK, you have access to the majority stuff.
You can still use s.HP (to whiff punish or zone), Dolphin dive (for fireballs, hops over lows and is a far reaching low) and HP killing head (when punishing things on block).
It’s handy when u’re a stick user or using the claw method on pad. If u don’t, it’s a bit annoying to hold LK and do anti air MP without remapping the buttons.
By holding HP you give up the things previously mentioned but u do get hcb+LK if u need to mix things up and st.LK to get people off of you or do 4f punishers.
On pad I feel like it’s an easier alternative if you want to have access to all other buttons without remapping it.
Also did anyone by any chance save the first image in my previous post? (It showed the ranges where u could punish fireball)
Imgur decided to remove it and I didn’t make a backup of it, lol. If no one has it, it’s alright, I was planning to remake it anyways once the game officially releases.
I think the matchup that felt the hardest was Nash. Wasn’t unwinnable or anything but you do have to work for it.
Soda can was important I found in getting in vs him and Ryu. It helped from fullscreen to get a feel of the players rhythm when throwing fireballs and what they would do after. I’d walk forward and block/neutral jump/bull horn(good to gain space from 3/4ths to fullscreen vs projectiles). Once you get a feel for what ranges and timing I found it easier to utilize revengers and forward jumps for big damage and stun. Additionally, if they jump, you can air to air them and you are now in a favorable position.
I saw some stuff reading back about hanging chain. I found myself using lk chain the most if I needed comebacks, and mk/hk chain for zoning/corner push other than the obvious reading them on jumps/backdash/fireball. I don’t know if you can combo cr. hp xx lk/mk chain anymore, but if you can it is something to consider especially lk chain cause of all the things you could get off of it, quickrise or not.
One more thing too, keep in mind if you do get a cr. mp anti air, you get a meaty st. hk from what I understand (didn’t test this). This could be important because you can link at least st. lp from it, AND if it Crush Counters, you get some good damage. It also opens up good mind games too.
Matchup esque things that I found:
vs: Karen: you can time at least a st. lp to hit her out of her overhead special move to hit her when she is landing. To be safe just hit her out of the air though.
vs: Cammy: Cammy should use her walk speed to her advantage and lay off hooligan mixups. It is really easy to cr. mp her out and take the advantage back. Be really careful in midrange because cr. mk is a good whiff punisher, plus her walk speed makes it rough to pin her down. I found success cornering her so that she cant walk around and it is easier to check hooligan. Punishing dives blocked high is big here too.
I’m gonna edit this with some Nutrient matches. He really has some good ideas for the character and some things to consider when doing combos from stun situations.
Didn’t have any problems with Nash either. It’s pretty easy to react to his jaguar kick with cr.MP, and all of his long-ranged normals are minus on block so you can fairly confidently throw out cr.LP or something after, depending on the spacing. Sonic boom zoning is obvs not a problem due to Birdie’s absurd number of projectile-counters. Just walk him down and always be looking for the teleport whenever he throws a fireball with full V meter.
LK is not a great option IMO, since s.LK is his best way to challenge pressure…so much stuff in this game leaves people close at -1 to -4. Not to mention losing the ability to throw tech is quite annoying.
I think it’s probably best to give up HP or HK. It’s annoying to give up s.HP or cr.HK, but I feel like whichever one of those you lose, you can mostly make it up with the other. All of the other moves tied to HP/HK are very situational, and of course its better to lose access to V-trigger activation than throw or V-skill.
I really don’t like to give up HK however. That s.HK it has really good hitboxes/hurtboxes and has deceptively more range than you would think.
It catches opponents out of the air when done after any blockstring, it’s also used as an AA when c.MP would be too far and has a ton of active frames which easily lead to crush counters and meaties.
Best button to give up (depending on the matchup) would be HP imo.
In the corner I was holding hp for it due to it being a better for tagging jumps than just reading it with cr. hp target combo. You just release at the peak and you are golden.
Midscreen I found myself doing a lot of button switching with holds for bullhorn, similar to playing Zero in umvc3. Sometimes Zero players had to switch between L and H to hold buster on occasion for various reasons. I think this is the what it will come down to in the future just looking ahead.
Something I’m thinking about when the game releases is at least having bull horn charged for quick rise situations. I don’t know if a lot of you encountered a lot of jump ins on quick rise, but perhaps masking a bullhorn after various knockdowns could be a thing to set more options in matches if you know your opponent is a jumper on quickrise. Notable ones being bullhead combo enders, revengers, and mk/hk chain.
I wanted to ask if there were any matchups that gave you guys issue in this last beta. I ran into a lot of good Nash players but it wasn’t impossible either.
Since the wait for SFV is driving me nuts, I decided to do a little write-up on Laura. It’s not exactly in-depth, but it does cover the general options you can do on her which hopefully still work in later versions.
universal stuff vs Laura
Empty jumping over her fireball will get yourself hit. The only way to get rid of it is by hitting her. Now, the only jump attack that can actually hit Laura while the fireball is on screen is j.MK.
That attack hits the deepest out of all Birdie’s buttons and is his only option when jumping over a fireball and hit a cowering, crouching Laura.
Because her fireballs are very high, you can’t use bull revenger to go over them and punish in time.
Instead you could use normals that go far and doesn’t get hit when trying to go under it. c.MK and sweep work for this.
Her fireball is also punishable on reaction by Bullhorn, dolphin dive (good for this mu) and hanging chain (if she charges it).
You can’t use your armor options (ex bullhorn, ex bullhead or f+HP) because they all have only 1 hit of armor and Laura obviously does multiple hits.
If it lags and u are unable to deal with her fullscreen fireball charges, then you can play even more lame by going fullscreen yourself and tossing cans edit and eating donuts.
it’s almost the same gameplan as her, but you get to actually force her to come to you instead if there’s time and the life difference isn’t too great.
