BH Combo Thread

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
21

funny that bh/sent/tron would be mentioned. I started using this team again recently just for a change of pace.

You have to have a whole lotta patience with this team and the ability to take a major loss of life from chip damage against cable and sent and sometimes storm, without getting desperate and making a mistake. long as you zone the opponent into the corner well, you can usually catch them in a mistake which equals death. Just know how to use tron assist plus demons to keep the assist they might try to counter you with from ever having a roll in the match.

As for cancelling to the HSF from sent-a xxx jd…you have to do the jd at the last second to where it’ll still combo in order to cancel to hsf right b4 the jd finishes, and even then the opponent will sometimes fly up and over the hsf when you cancel supers.

Hey stilt, any chance you’ll be coming to the south bay area…or better yet, the UCLA area?

22

Well, I’m going to be working in the east bay and most likely living either there or on the north bay. (North bay is pretty, I would like it there and wouldn’t care about the commute for that if I could find something good.) Either one is a long, long ways from LA, and I’m probably going to like it that way. You can take me out of the Pacific NW, but you can’t take the Pacific NW out of me (thus why I will probably want to settle somewhere in the north bay area if I can) – LA is just way too much scorching hot, sprawled urbanization gone mad for my tastes. It is probably telling that the last time I was in LA, my principal inspiration from it when I got home was to feature a hell sphere in my fantasy storylines where the entire plane of existence was one humongous sprawled out jam packed cityscape gone all wrong and wretched. I really dislike LA that much. You might get me down there for SIGGRAPH and/or Evo, and that’s about it.

23

Hey there guys. I’m a newb Sent BH player and would like to at least get down the basics of the two. My team right now is BH/Sent/Cyclops in that order. I win every now and then, but it normally is just because my opponent messes up and I get a solid DHC in.

From reading your guy’s posts it sounds like poke/poke/sent drones into judgement day is blackheart’s main auto super that I should be retaliating with when I see an opening? If so, is the first poke simultaneous with the calling of sent’s ground assist? I can never seem to connect this.

Another problem I notice is that I build very little meter compared to my opponent and just can’t keep up with all his supers most the time. What’s the best way (and safest) to build meter with BH on point?

Last question would be how do you do the BH infinite from cyclops? From seeing a couple of peolpe play and asking around cyclops is one of the better ways to start it, but I can never get it going. I think I might have the wrong idea of what it really is. I had the impression that once the opponent is bouncing from rh demons that you super jump, rh demons, air dash back xx rh demons [repeat]. Am I doing it wrong? But most importantly, how do you guys start it with cyclops and keep it going? (And Stilt, I did fail you “does your BH suck” test, but then again I’ve only been playing with him for about a week now).

Any response (or vids if you know of any) would be greatly appreciated! There’s a local tourney coming up on the 15th and I’d like to play BH/Sent/Cyclops for the trump card. Thanks guys!

24

Exactly which questions of the litmus did you fail? Well anywho…

I play this team sometimes for a change of pace. The thing is though, Cyke is a more horizontal assist, thus you will have to taylor yourself a bit to a more offensive style, so that you can take advantage of the blockstun and the like.

To start the infinite with BH/Cyke with a ground poke, just do this:

cr. lk + cyke, cr. lk xx sj. hk xx ad b, ad. hk.

To do the super jump after the last cr. lk, you must put the stick into neutral first. Also, as soon as you take to the air, hit hk. It takes a little timing, but you’ll get used to it.

Just because you have Cyke, do not forget that you have a nasty DHC that you need to hit someone with. It will greatly increase your chances of winning. Also, Sent/Cyke has some very stupid easy mode damage combos without even fast flying. For example:

Launch + Cyke, sj. fp, Cyke hits, lp rp.

Let’s just say, it hurts, and you nail it off of a DHC, it hurts worse.

This is just some general stuff with this team though, I haven’t played it recently, so I can’t really give you any insight as to what you need to do with them, but that’s a start at least. I hope it helps you in any way.

25

Thanks CoosCoos. I have accidentally started the infin with the crouching pokes, I just didn’t know exactly what happened to make it go off. So you are saying that after I call cyke with the pokes, let go of the stick then [super jump into rh demons, air dash back with demons], repeat brackets? I’ve seen some just land in front of the bouncing opponent and then just jump straight up and down, and on some lighter characters they empty normal jump then normal jump demons. Is this possible, or am I seeing things?

Thanks again for your help, it is much needed and appreciated! Oh and I failed all but the one talking about random sj. rh demons and the one about “his only good moves are rh. demons and infernoxxHOD”… So that is pretty much a fail IMHO. All is good though! Thanks again!

26

Well you call Cyke when you press the first lk, and then hit the second lk, then let go of the stick for a split second, then do down, up, hk, then right after that, press the punches then hk for the air dashed hk piggies. Don’t worry about normal jump stuff. Just do it the same way. As an added bonus, if your timing is good, you can go for a reset of the whole thing, starting from the cr. lk.

I also recommend you try out BH/Cable/Cyke, or BH/Storm/Cyke. Maybe they’ll help in understanding the duo a lot more, as it will teach you what the infinite does for different people, and give Team Watts a try (BH/Sent/Commando). Watts is like a poor man’s thrax, which poke/poke/commando/DHC should equal death, and then you have two very good zoning assist to work with, with Sent in the lead and a character or two dead.

Anywho, I hope this helps as well, and you’re welcome for the other stuff.

27

Team Watts [BH/Sent/Capcom?] is cool and all, I just like Cyclops for flavor. I know this may not be a better team or one that is as good, it’s just different. And yeah, your advice is helping! :slight_smile: Thanks.

Quick question though, what is the best approach to take when playing against a rush down player with my team [BH/Sent/Cyke]? From the sounds of it I should be using BH against the Mags, but I don’t know how to effectively take out the rushing characters. Is it just pokes and assists into DHC’s or what? From my personal experience, the rush down wins (around here anyway) not because the player is so good that you can’t stop him, but rather that there is just so much crap going on that the defending player can’t keep up with the rush down speed and assists. Any ways, any advice as on how to approach rush down would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again guys…

28

I play BH with weird assists, but a few basic notes:

Combo into Judgement Day (flying pig super) on the ground does OK damage, and DHCs pretty well (depending on your team). If you have a single-hit assist, you might want to try to go right into the JD instead of Inferno xx Heart of Darkness.

Ex. with Colossus AAA you can do crouching Short, Forward+assist (IIRC), xx JD. You recover at about the same time as the opponent if you DHC, so you can’t combo afterward. Also works with Guile AAA, Charlie, etc.

There was some Inferno xx Armageddon (meteor super), that ended low enough for me to combo afterward with standing Jab (and, so you could probably combo another super afterward), but I forget how it went. Was using Charlie AAA, I think…standing Forward+assist, Jab Inferno xx Armageddon?

Speaking of Charlie, you can do crouching Short, standing Forward+assist xx sj Roundhouse into infinite. If they’re crouching, you can use crouching Strong instead, as Charlie’s AAA will whiff vs crouching opponents (I think the combo works with Guile AAA too, which doesn’t have that problem).

29

Combos after Armageddon are very doable, but unfortunately inconsistent due to the random nature of the super. If you can catch them with a jab in mid-air, it can be comboed into his launcher, which goes neatly into an Inferno into another Armageddon.

30

Remember that you do have Sent/Cyke. Also, remember that Cyke leaves someone in blockstun. Whenever you get your opponent to block Cyke, then you have a free lockdown pattern with Sent with flying and stomping a lot. Also, remember that with Blackheart, you need to be normal jumping and going back a lot. Also, you’re going to have to condition your opponent to do certain things with Blackheart.

For example, you’re doing normal jump back fierce, and your opponent decides that he wants to come at you on the ground. The second you see him dashing to you, you call Sent, wee he runs into drones, and so he thinks twice about going on the ground to you. So, he has to now take to the air probably to get to you, which then you have a big advantage, so that you have many more options to kill his ass off.

The key to stopping rushdown with that team, is to identify the space that your opponent is rushing in on you at first, then you take that space away. This will force your opponent eventually to come on at an angle which is advantagous for you to get big damage in. Also, remember that just because you have Cyke, you don’t have to go for the infinite. I would say that if you get someone in the air with hk demons, then do it. Also, when you have Sent out, with this team, you have a good option of zone offense, because you have the offensive(yes OFFENSE, fuck defense, you get a nigga in blockstun it’s stomp stomp revolution bitch!) assist in cyke, and a zoning and defensive one with Blackheart.

This is some stuff that could come helpful to you as you play rushdown teams with this team. By the way, do you know how to trap with Sent/BH? If not, practice it. You can also lockdown with this duo as well. Try to work on these things, because the more you restrict someone’s movement with that team, but greater your chance of taking the win.

I hope this helps.

31

in the corner: c.lk,c.mp, judgement day

What kind of combos do u do w/out assists?

I just don’t play BH that much

32

Well there’s some stuff BH can do. There’s:

Launch, sj. lp, sj. lk, sj. lp xx ad. f xx ad. lp, (ad. lk, ad. lk or ad. lk, throw).

That will cause fly screen and such, or you can throw.

(Launch or on a dummy doing something in the air), sj. lp xx ad. f, hp throw.

If you’re interested in playing BH, then you NEED to learn how to do this.

cr. lp, cr. lp xx sj. lp xx ad. f, ad. lp, ad. lk, ad. lp, ad. lk.

The “wooo hooo I’m a pixie character that can super jump cancel” thing. Remember after the second cr. lp to put the stick into neutral right away, and then super jump.

cr. lk, st. hk xx HOD/Judgement Day.

Easy link to HOD or Judgement Day. By all means with JD, DHC and wreck something.

There’s some stuff to get you started though.

Hope this helps.

33

whats the timing on that cr.lp cr.mp xx sj.lp combo i cant seem to get the super jump out i’ll try the netural thing and then see what i get but other than that i cant get it please help me out with that cooscoos thanks peace.

34

anytime I’m comboing someone in the corner (assist or no assist) a use HOD as my super of choice (simple cr.lk, s.hod) b/c from there you can do 1 of 3 things…

  1. j.jp or j.lk as they on their way down…with proper timing, the j.lk after the j.jp/j.lk can be hard to block b/c it’ll be a 50/50 chance of hitting high and low

  2. standing rh as they’re on their way down, so that they bounce but stay standing. From there I j.lk, j.lk, s.rh repeatedly until they…
    a)die
    b)manage to mass out and still block (not easy to do)
    c)mash out only to get combo’d by the j/lk’s in which case you just cancel to another hod

  3. Launch them as they’re on there way down from the super and as they come down from the launch, you jump and air throw them (this is only for an opponent that’s overly defensive) (usually gets an OOOHHH outta people that might be watching =P

35

I do this sometimes in a lot of situations. BH is not unlike what people used to complain about with Spider-Man for air chains.

I do this one sometimes too, although you have to be careful with it because it’s easier to mash out than you might think at first. Nobody in Portland ever fell for it any more by the time I moved. Maybe people in the bay area won’t know any better.

Probably a bit needlessly cute, though.

36

Hey guys it has been ages… Still glad that the blackheart thread is still alive. and to my surprise i see newcomer interested in blackheart.

37

Hey Stilt, I just saw some of the footage of the Fairfield Tourney.

I wanted to get your thoughts on your play throughout your matches and your 5th place finish.

Plus, can you give me the differences between Watts and BH/Sent/Cyke?

38

Funny you should mention this, because I just posted a long thread last night. But I’ll get rid of that one and retype most of my thoughts here. I was a little rusty and didn’t show good judgment at all points in this tournament, in ways that make me really irked at myself in a few cases. All in all, though, it was a decent approximation of what my Watts can do, and a somewhat decent reminder to me that my team management judgment is not real good after not having practiced regularly for so long.

Against KiLLaKeLLY

First off, I need to rethink my first-attack-glitch defense against people, because I got nailed with the launcher in both games because I was jumping straight up. I probably should modify this to crouching block and call Sentinel instead of jumping up and call Sentinel. If he’d had a solid infinite-into-DHC execution I could have lost BH for giggles in both games.

This match is also a very strong statement for why I will never like Cyclops for BH as much as Commando. How many times did I get a hit with BH sj rh and convert into some sort of combo in this match? Plenty. How many of those would have worked if I’d had Cyclops? Well, the ones next to the ground might have still worked, but the best ones are the ones where they’re still bouncing in the air. If you’ve got Cyclops, you pretty much have to wait for them to get to the ground or the juggle into things will almost always whiff; with Commando, you don’t care. That’s a lot of damage, a lot of offense, and a lot of space control that you leave on the table if you take Cyclops over Commando, and for what? A really crappy infinite? Not at all worth it.

With Commando, any sj. rh hit that they don’t mash out of is a standing series of pokes into the combo of your choice. Note that every time I hit with a st. rh in this match, I did a standing poke even if they were on the ground. This combo will work every time.

Also, Kelly had the misfortune of becoming my first tournament DHC victim with this team in game 2. Fair demonstration of how much it can break a game. Assuming for the moment that he hadn’t just completely lost his Iron Man for fun, this is still a real match with Cable/Cyclops against Watts. When his Cable walks into a rh (which, realistically, he is not going to mash out of before I can get to him much) into a two meter DHC in the corner? He’s at full life coming in, and he’s got 5% left when it’s done. If I’d successfully converted the unblockable I was attempting afterwards, that’s 100%. As it was, it completely ruined what was left of his team even though I ate a lot of redbar to put Sentinel in, and nobody really has much business coming back on Sent/BH/Commando with a team that’s that mangled if you don’t hand it to them. Tell me why this combo isn’t worth as much as Storm/Sentinel, again? :looney:

Against Mikey R

Okay, for some reason Mikey decided to use Watts in a mirror match in the first game. I don’t know if I’ve ever actually seen another video of two people using Watts in a mirror match, so this is something worth cherishing a little.

My thoughts on Mikey’s Watts go about like this: I think Mikey plays Watts as a casual team that he uses to screw around against people who aren’t particularly good, and if he runs into someone that doesn’t get thrown off by his BH then he expects to save it with his excellent Sentinel/Commando (which is probably his best character-and-assist pairing). I suspect he didn’t take me very seriously as an opponent at first and probably thought that he could get away with this as a sort of veiled insult. On the other hand, he did win the match but he probably shouldn’t have, because I pretty much gave it to him on a platter.

Upon looking at the video more, I have to say that my initial impression based on my immediate memory of playing against his BH was probably a little harsh (I characterized it in my after-tournament novel as “um… awful”), and was formed somewhat by the fact that he seemed a little off balance when he was on point, he was off point very quickly, and then he got him killed so egregiously as an assist. He obviously knew how to use BH’s pokes to a fair degree, but he didn’t seem to be terribly accurate in where he was throwing his demons around, didn’t seem to use sj. fierce or realize that you shouldn’t chase another BH through the air after he throws one, and didn’t seem real sure of where or when to avoid a well placed Commando. Once his BH was off point, he seemed to rely a lot more on Commando and didn’t have a very good grasp of when to call BH (whose assist is very good for keeping people from using the air much) and when not to (such as throwing him in as a completely unremarkable addition to a fierce/RP for block damage against another Sentinel, which – if that’s all you’re doing – is a very good way to get your BH killed, which is exactly what happened).

Now… I believe I said something funny in the previous bit about how nobody has much business coming back on Sent/BH/Commando with a ruined team if you don’t hand to them. Well, game 2 was a wonderful example of handing it to them. It starts off as a very good illustration of how to fight Team Scrub with Team Watts (read: Mikey is widely known not to be a bad player, and this fight obviously was mine for the taking), and ends with me frankly pissed off at myself, seeing the lifebars after his Cable died and knowing that I manged to lose that game anyway. That’s a simple matter of bad tournament judgment on my part out of sheer rust in playing against good players. What I should have done was sat on the lead like I did in the first game and take minimal risks with Sentinel, and if my Sentinel dies before his then I sit on him with BH as well. What I actually did was… well, bad. There was absolutely no need at all to tag BH in like that, and it left me off balance for the rest of the game. There was also no need to actually take to the air with Sentinel and run into pokes and Commando as much as I did. Sentinel in this situation can very nicely let the game come to him and react and zone, and there’s not a whole lot most any mangled point character with one assist can do about it when you’re ahead. I’m going to be remembering this game next tournament as a reminder to close matches out better than this, because if I don’t give this to him for free this match is a 2-0 sweep.

Game 3… no comment. I have not adapted to Fairfield’s sticks well with my Cable at all and I knew it going into the tournament. Cable, in most arcades, is my best character. Not this one. That’s why I hadn’t used Cable before this and it’s why I didn’t use him again. It was a mistake to try it here, I should’ve stayed with Watts and patched up the mistakes I made in the second game instead of trying something completely different that I knew probably wasn’t going to work with the way I’m executing with Cable lately on that machine.

Against Larry S

This match got played within minutes of the previous one, and I was frankly still a little upset at myself over how that had gone. I played off balance from start to finish. Also, it’s not a bad argument for getting myself used to doing the DHC with armageddon instead of HOD in the middle of the screen, because otherwise Storm is very hard to do it on properly. Magneto and Cable, no problem. Storm and other pixies, harder to do, at least for me. I’m frankly not even sure why the hell I started BH in the second game, because my usual playbook on Watts versus Santhrax is to start Sentinel. Wasn’t in very good focus and it kind of showed. I still put up a good fight regardless, but this could have gone a bit better. Bad judgment once again in tagging BH again… I really don’t understand why I kept trying to do that, because Watts isn’t exactly short of DHCs or counters that are just fine for getting him in.

There’s going to be a lot of sitting down and staring at these and reminding myself not to do some of the stupid mistakes I did. Two years ago, I don’t do a lot of these things. But two years ago I was playing tournaments in Seattle once a month and supplementing it with ones in Portland as well; since then there’s been one in Portland maybe once every few months and very little regular practice. I look at videos from a few years ago as compared to this, and it’s just shocking to me how much smarter I was then against good opposition.

But… oh well. I’ve got money again, I can start practicing more again, and hopefully I’ll stop doing some of these things and managing my teams a lot better. These videos are an example of what I could be doing and a statement that I need to shake off a lot of rust.

39

Well? Nobody has anything to say? :confused:

40

As promised, I have edited this post.

Keep in mind though, I’m gonna ask a lot of questions and stuff and give some analysis and crap. But here goes.

vs. KillaKelly

The first match was way too easy. It would have been a little more difficult if he had any kind of Doom. Matter of fact, if I were him, I would have probably started Doom instead of IM in this case just because of BH. It would have still been a tough fight, but at least it would have given him a little bit of a chance.

The first part of the second match was luck city. Having seen some of KillaKelly’s footage before, had he hit that solo infinite set up on you, it would be curtains for the whole team. But he didn’t. This match showed he blocked a lot more than the last one, however, he still seemed to not know how to fight Watts. I don’t get why he did not just stay with Cable and make that very dumb tag midmatch like that. It lead to him losing two characters in the end.

Now I got to see your Sent in action. I’m going to assume that you hadn’t gotten accustomed to the sticks yet. It seemed to me that you did to much fk drones in that match. Other than that, I thought this was really solid.

vs. Mike Ross

This is probably where most of the critique will come from, as there were some things I had questions about in this set.

First things first, I wholeheartedly agree that Mike Ross has a way better Sent/Cap then you. It was very apparent during the first match. If it hadn’t had been for him doing that very random spit + BH, he probably would have won the match with his solid Sent play. This is not taking anything away from you, because you totally regained control back in the match, but it was apparent that after this first match, it was going to be a dogfight.

The second match, you absolutely should have won that. To me, you lost the match with the blind tag in with BH. Add that ill advised Cap call, and it was curtains. You could have comeback though IMO. It would have taken a lot of work though, and lot of stomping.

The last match, I have to ask, why didn’t you stay with Watts? You fought the last match well, and then when you went to Cable/BH/Capcom, I was like, what is he thinking? His Sent had his way with your Cable. When you punished his Cap assist with the AHVB, you really really should have DHC’ed BH in. That way, you could have at least ran away and had Cable in reserve if you did mess up again. But because of that, it led to Cable knocked out, and half of BH’s life gone. Also, if Mike Ross had been paying attention, when you threw that empty Inferno, he really should have shot you, and then that lead to the match being over.

This set showed, that there were mistakes from both of you, it’s just that he capitalized just a little better this time.

vs. Larry S.

You start this first match really well. You hurt two of his chracters really early on. But you kept doing the cr. hk xx rp with Sent. Don’t ever do that. It is very rollable. You had this under control until his Sent came in. A very blind tag in with BH lead to some life off, and a very nice combo on a vulnerable Cap did him in. The rest is history.

Second match, you got baited quite a lot in the start. I felt that if he knocked out your godly BH, and got his Sent in with the lead, this match is over. And basically , even though it didn’t quite happen that way, it happened eventually, leading to the loss.

Well to sum it all up from what I saw. You can fight Cables well, I don’t know about Magnuses cause you didn’t face any in the videos, but Storm and Sentinel give you major problems, as they do for everybody. The last two matches showed where people’s Sent’s are compared to where yours is at. So you have an awful lot of work ahead of you with your Sent. This is my opinion, but he’s the weakest part of your Watts. But that’s just me and all. Some things to keep in mind with your Sent:

-Get rid of the cr. hk xx rp like I said earlier. It is rollable and mostly unsafe.
-Add some stomp patterns to your arsenal. All Sents have to have stomp patterns, no matter the team.
-Get into the habit of mixing up the Sent/BH lockdown more by doing spit + BH xx fly forward hp xx unfly xx dash somewhere, or something else. You can’t just rely on spit + BH drones(specially hk drones, which should be used once per match IMO), and you need to sometimes make it seem like you’re going to start a stomp pattern and stuff to help bait assists.

That’s just some general stuff though. I’m sure you will rectify it in the future. If I can, I’m gonna try and get some footage of me playing Watts to be critiqued and all. Stilt, if you are not far from Salinas, I suggest you talk to some of their crew and play with them. I think it will help you a lot.

But anywho, I hope this helps in anyway. And finally ending this long thing.