BFL: The Team Deathbutton/Steroids/Bigman Thread

[System_1]

*Originally posted by DeathFromAbove *
**

Thanks, yeah I’d love to. I read a bunch of your posts in the Hulk forum earlier too. Good stuff. What’s so bad about Cable vs Hulk? I did a lot better with Hulk than Juggie, mainly based on the strength of airthrow into combo. And what’s good about Hulk vs Doom? I got FUBAR trying to fight that. Too many photon supers. XD**

Thanks for the kind words. Long story short, Hulk’s main problem is that one of his primary tools (gamma charge) usually = a total freebie for Cable. You need tremendous patience, and it’s not always doable in a 99-second context. The airthrow XX combo thing is nice & all, but very rollable; don’t expect to get too far with it after people have seen it a time or two.

As for Hulk v. Doom - Hulk simply has a lot more ‘vertical-based’ offense (things like Gamma Quake, upwards gamma charges & to a lesser extent the Gamma Crush) in his arsenal to turn to. Consequently, he doesn’t totally have to take to the air to fight an air-based Doom. His “float” property with sj. fierce gives him a small boost as far as air mobolity. Sloppy photons are easily punished. About all you’ve really gotta worry about are a set of TK photons (ouch).

**
Also, what order you play this team in? I’ve been doing Jugg/Sent/Hulk, but then I try to glitch up Jugg & blind tag/counter Sent, leaving Hulk for last because his assist is fastest and he heals like…:eek:

**

I haven’t really messed with Sent in awhile, but I usually use that order. I used to try to tag in Hulk (and I still do if I get a great opportunity), but countering in is generally the way to go. It’s just not worth giving up 60-70% trying to get a clean tag.

**
Oh, and what’s the deal with stacking super armor? Sometimes I can get Sent to punch through VBs and stuff, but sometimes not. **

The super armor ‘resets’ (for lack of a better word) for each offensive increase, meaning…

blocking ~> neutral
neutral ~> normal
normal ~> special
special ~> super

So… (standing) jab, strong is not going to “stack”.
But jab, strong XX rocket punch will.
Or rocket punch XX HSF will.
And so on.

Very powerful once you truly master it - I haven’t yet; it takes nerves of steel in the Big 4 world of Marvel. But like I say, you can actually stop blocking a chain, take somebody’s love taps and power through it with your own super… at least theoretically.

The real fly in the ointment is that certain normals (like Mag/Storm j. fierce) positively BLOW THROUGH super armor, rendering the concept… not useless, but certainly not without substantial risk.

Execution (decent sticks?) = critical

[System_1]

…

*Originally posted by Buck Jones *
**Thanks for the kind words. Long story short, Hulk’s main problem is that one of his primary tools (gamma charge) usually = a total freebie for Cable.

As for Hulk v. Doom - Hulk simply has a lot more ‘vertical-based’ offense (things like Gamma Quake, upwards gamma charges & to a lesser extent the Gamma Crush) in his arsenal to turn to. Consequently, he doesn’t totally have to take to the air to fight an air-based Doom. His “float” property with sj. fierce gives him a small boost as far as air mobolity. Sloppy photons are easily punished. About all you’ve really gotta worry about are a set of TK photons (ouch).**

Thanks, good info & it makes sense. I basically xcopied my MSF Hulk into this game, and I have a tendency to forget that Gamma Quake exists. :o Also, I treat Gamma Charge as a freebie against everyone…another (probably bad) leftover from having played him in a previous game. Not that I don’t use it at all, but I’m accustomed to using it as a ‘take a chance’ move, and relying on the ‘take a hit to land a hit’ strategy, as well as using a lot of late cancels, & empty/whiffed/crossup jump-ins. Footsies for mvc2.

**The super armor ‘resets’ (for lack of a better word) for each offensive increase, meaning…

blocking ~> neutral
neutral ~> normal
normal ~> special
special ~> super

So… (standing) jab, strong is not going to “stack”.
But jab, strong XX rocket punch will.
Or rocket punch XX HSF will.
And so on.

The real fly in the ointment is that certain normals (like Mag/Storm j. fierce) positively BLOW THROUGH super armor, rendering the concept… not useless, but certainly not without substantial risk.

Execution (decent sticks?) = critical **

I did not know that. Sweet, I’m going to have to go pull some ghetto-fied blowthroughs against those pesky zoning characters. Guard cancel, just take the hit and ‘stack super armor’ to go through and kill something. =)

Thanks again.

[Mizter_Ed]

BUMP! Don’t let this thread die, please!

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It won’t be dead as long as we’re around to field the occasional query…

But if nobody’s got any questions, then it will just be on standby on the 2nd page or whatever.

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The bigmen are surprisingly well-documented, thanks to all the (regular) contributors. A lot of low tier should be so lucky.

You already did your share a long time ago.

Shortened the screen name on down, eh?

Take it easy, cuz…

[System_1]

Hulk

Thanks for the help before, Buck. I incorporated more Gamma Charge XX GQ & it helps.

Next question, what’s the trick to get the airthrow after a Gamma Quake? I always find them knocked too far away horizontally to get it. Do I need to dashjump, or just land the Gamma Quake deeper? I’ve tried both with no success. :bluu:

Also, when Hulk (ground) throws an opponent into the corner, does anything combo afterwards? I landed 2 combos (out of 2 attempts) after throw into corner, but I wasn’t sure if it comboed or if the opponent was just dumb.

Also, if you’ve got any tricks for Hulk/Tron-Y, that’d be nice. I think of Tron as sort of an honorary bigman, thanks to the stupid damage that assist does.

And here’s some of my own tiny contributions to the jolly green one:

When you hit an assist with Gamma Charge XX GQ , you can dashjump HP afterwards and it (un)combos on the assist as they fall down behind the opponent’s point character. It takes a little timing (not sure it works on heavy characters). Depending on what the opponents point does it may or may not be safe, but J.HP outprioritized most things, and should option select to throw/tech hit if they try to throw you/jumpback.

After a hit LK Gamma Charge, the opponent lands right beside Hulk, which makes a perfect throw opportunity. Of course, If you hit a Gamma Charge, there’s better options…

After a ground throw, dashjump LK,LK. You should land at the same time they do, setting up another throw opportunity. If the opponent doesn’t catch on quickly, you can move them to the corner in a hurry.

Hulk’s dashjump is his best rushdown asset, IMO.

[Gammadynamite]

Hulk

*Originally posted by DeathFromAbove *
**
Next question, what’s the trick to get the airthrow after a Gamma Quake? I always find them knocked too far away horizontally to get it. Do I need to dashjump, or just land the Gamma Quake deeper? I’ve tried both with no success. :bluu:

**

Try in the corner first…and when you do it,
MASH LIKE CRAZY
If you don’t mash, you’ll never land the air throw after the gamma quake.

After a hit LK Gamma Charge, the opponent lands right beside Hulk, which makes a perfect throw opportunity. Of course, If you hit a Gamma Charge, there’s better options…

Stand alone LK Gamma charge leads into an unmashable Gamma Crush setup, however there are better (more damaging ways ) to set up Gamma Crushes nowadays:D

Peace
-D-

[System_1]

…

Thanks, I’ll try that. I didn’t know it was mashable.

[System_1]

Hulk

*Originally posted by DeathFromAbove *
Thanks for the help before, Buck. I incorporated more Gamma Charge XX GQ & it helps.

Quite welcome…

**

Next question, what’s the trick to get the airthrow after a Gamma Quake? I always find them knocked too far away horizontally to get it. Do I need to dashjump, or just land the Gamma Quake deeper? I’ve tried both with no success. :bluu: **

Has to do with the mashability (already addressed); it may be possible mid-screen, but I think it’s mostly a wall thing. Much easier, anyway…

**

Also, when Hulk (ground) throws an opponent into the corner, does anything combo afterwards? I landed 2 combos (out of 2 attempts) after throw into corner, but I wasn’t sure if it comboed or if the opponent was just dumb.**

None of Hulk’s normals will actually combo as far I’m aware, but some assists can serve to either add some pain or set something up. For instance, you can call Jugg-b just before you ground throw them and that works. Follow-up: If they’re on the wall and they don’t roll after that, do an OTG s. Fierce XX roundhouse Gamma Charge XX Gamma Quake/Wave (as appropriate). Pretty good damage.

I’m sure there are other such cutesy kind of tricks out there…

**

Also, if you’ve got any tricks for Hulk/Tron-Y, that’d be nice. I think of Tron as sort of an honorary bigman, thanks to the stupid damage that assist does.**

Yeah, Tron is almost honorary bigman based on stamina + projectile assist.

Even though she’s in my stable of characters I use “in the slot” (Jugg/xxx/Hulk), I don’t have anything particularly fancy to provide. Mostly just dashjumping over the point trying to land the assist from behind, basically.

**

And here’s some of my own tiny contributions to the jolly green one:

When you hit an assist with Gamma Charge XX GQ , you can dashjump HP afterwards and it (un)combos on the assist as they fall down behind the opponent’s point character. It takes a little timing (not sure it works on heavy characters). Depending on what the opponents point does it may or may not be safe, but J.HP outprioritized most things, and should option select to throw/tech hit if they try to throw you/jumpback.**

Yeah, j. HP has a lot of unusual properties; you could write a small novel on just that normal alone. One thing I would like to point out is that it’s generally an excellent choice whenever you find yourself above Sent - either air-to-air or air-to-ground.

**

After a hit LK Gamma Charge, the opponent lands right beside Hulk, which makes a perfect throw opportunity. Of course, If you hit a Gamma Charge, there’s better options…

After a ground throw, dashjump LK,LK. You should land at the same time they do, setting up another throw opportunity. If the opponent doesn’t catch on quickly, you can move them to the corner in a hurry.

Hulk’s dashjump is his best rushdown asset, IMO. **

What LK Gamma Charge really brings to the table is quicker startup; it doesn’t seem like much, especially if you don’t know Hulk, but it can make the difference between forcing a trade or getting stuffed outright. It’s not as “super-friendly” though, which is probably why I neglected its finer points for so long.

Dashjump is good, as long as you don’t impale yourself on Big 4 launchers, HSFs and the like. Knowing when to jump in empty is absolutely critical.

Thanks for the post & contributions… if you got anything else, I’m around…

[System_1]

i recently started using hulk and i got to say he kicks ass. i especially like his air grabs. although ironman is not considered one of the big boys, i think he goes well with hulk. hulk’s dash assist sets up for ironman’s infinite and ironman’s anti-air assist sets up for a gamma crush. lk+im’s assist,+mk into gamma crush is a cool combo with loads of damage. i just hold down and hulk does the rest. what do u guys think? oh, i almost forgot. what about doing swith trick with hulk? is it reliable even though he has super armor. iv’e gotten some players by launching them from the beggining or sometimes just landing the one hit cancelled into gamma crush. just trying to keep this thread alive guys.lol.

[Gammadynamite]

If i remember correctly, I think you can combo into a j.LK in the corner after a standard throw…or maybe it was the command throw. EEEEEEEEEDDDDD!!! GET YOUR ASS IN HERE!!!

Peace
-D-

[System_1]

*Originally posted by Gammadynamite *
**If i remember correctly, I think you can combo into a j.LK in the corner after a standard throw…or maybe it was the command throw. EEEEEEEEEDDDDD!!! GET YOUR ASS IN HERE!!!

Peace
-D- **

Everything combos after the command throw into the corner. That thing is difficult to combo at best though.

I landed C.HP after normal throw twice. That doesn’t seem like it should combo, but Marvel is funny about what combos sometimes. I haven’t had a chance to get back to the arcade in a few days…

[Mizter_Ed]

*Originally posted by Gammadynamite *
**If i remember correctly, I think you can combo into a j.LK in the corner after a standard throw…or maybe it was the command throw. EEEEEEEEEDDDDD!!! GET YOUR ASS IN HERE!!!

Peace
-D- **

Hey don’t have a hurnia, I’m always here. I check this thread atleast once a day. I just don’t reply if someone already answers a question.

No you can’t combo off a normal throw. You can command throw (qcb+p) them into the corner and combo. Since the command throw initiates the flying screen it can’t be tech rolled (same as colossus’ command throw;) ). There are several thing you can do after the throw into the corner such as:

~s.FP+assist* (optional), FK Gamma Charge, Hyper Combo (your choice)

~j.lk, j.lp, [land], [opponent bounces off ground], j.FP air throw, j.lk+assist* (optional), FK Gamma Charge, Hyper Combo.

~d+lk, d+fp, [Vertical lk Gamma Charge, Diagonal FK Gamma Charge], Repeat until dead.

*I prefer to use Colossus’ AAA in the corner for a double crush, Gamma Crush, which normal does 100% by itself.:evil:

Those are just a few things you can do off the command throw in the corner. I’m sure there are plenty more.

[System_1]

Jugg

Ok, so now it’s time for me to learn point Juggy. I know some good guardbreaks and how to punk trijumps consistently. I can throw into combo in the corner & work some empty jumpins. Anything else that he can do besides sit back and wait for the opponent to flinch?

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The best thing I have is an assist-based wall combo that I posted before. I keep mines pretty simple.

I know Ed has some nice knockdown/c. jab-based wall stuff…

Lots of blocked earthquakes mean the momentum and tempo of the match are probably in your favor.

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Keep him on the side if you can. He does better there.

[Mizter_Ed]

Sit back? Juggs is all about anti-rushdown. Jugg is the poke king. His normal attacks have good priority and good damage. He eats magneto alive and gives storm a run for here money. Cable is a tough match up and sentinal can give him a few problems. He has several corner combos that do 100% on Cable without the glitch. Infact I hardly ever use his glitch unless I have certain advantage on the opponent.

I like to team him up with a good assist that can back him up and protect him. Doom is a good pick, but I like to use Hulk’s Dash or Thanos’ capture.

Team I like to use with Juggs:

Jugg/Hulk/Colossus
Jugg/Thanos/Colossus
Jugg/Anakaris/Amingo
Jugg/Doom/Omega Red

If you need some vids of a decent Jugg player check out mike_z’s vids at

www.evilslash.com

[System_1]

Yay!

[warmly greets thread that represents about 3 years of on-and-off effort on my part… not to mention others.]

[EDIT: Just so this post will make a little sense 6 months from now, there was a (hacker-induced) crash over the holiday weekend and it looked like everything Marvel was lost.

Good thing it wasn’t, because I sure as h3ll wasn’t gonna repeat myself… :p]

[Mizter_Ed]

That would suck if they lost all the good tips I’ve added over the year.

[Gammadynamite]

Hehe…

I started a new thread when i thought that this one was lost. I just got done doing some updates in the character specific threads if anyone cares to look.

Peace
-D-

[Mizter_Ed]

Since this is the deathbutton thread, I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned Thanos into my 100% combos.

With ThanosA/HulkB/ColossusB. Launch with Thanos call Triple Team Super. 100% on any character. Also you could start it with Hulk’s launch, but not Colossus’ cause his launcher sucks.

I’ve been using Thanos alot more now, and applying him into some of my tournies. He’s not quite at my Jugg’s level but he does get alot more crowd pleasures.

[System_1]

Thanos

So what exactly does Thanos do at point? All I know is that back+HK and jump LP have some sick priority. Also that Thanos moves too well for a character that size.