Best methods of guardbreaking w/ unblockables, vs. certain characters

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
1

OK, so here’s the deal. After doing chicken combo (or 2-hit MP vs. twins and Hugo) into whatever yagyou is necessary, and getting on the other side, the most damaging way to break their guard is neutral jump HK. Afterward, you do close MP again to continue the cycle. This isn’t any revelation, I’m sure.

HOWEVER, some characters can avoid neutral jump HK altogether by crouching, as this allows them to block/parry the string. These would be Dudley, Chun, and Makoto. There’s also the Shotos, who require different timings for neutral jump HK if they’re standing or crouching.

Now, sure, there could be ways to make this a guessing game of sorts. But getting an opportunity for unblockable loops is rare in the first place, so I want something that works with the same timing, every time. Here’s what I’ve found…

vs. Shotos: Do far s.MK after jumping over them. IIRC this gives the second-best damage and stun of any of Oro’s medium attacks (the best being his close MK), and it will actually allow you to combo close MP afterward. I forget if you can use the close MK for this or not…

vs. Dudley: Chicken combo into MP yagyou, then dash once to push him forward (he has to be pretty high up in the air for all of this). Jump over him while he’s in the air, and without moving do close MK upon landing.

vs. Chun: Close MK seems to be iffy. Far MK whiffs if she crouches. c.MK works consistently, though I hate to use it because it does no stun. Actually, I’m not even sure any of these really hit meaty against her (you have to walk forward just a bit after jumping over her).

vs. Makoto: Close MK seems to work, although I have the same issue as with c.MK vs. Chun.

So, just something to let you all know about. =)

EDIT: Removed Tweleve and Urien from this list after I learned how to perform j.HK unblockables on them (thanks to Streak).

-Josh

2

Are you talking about specifically unblockable set ups where those characters can avoid neutral jumping roundhouse? Because I know for a fact that I can land neutral jumping roundhouse on crouching chun li, and I’m 99% certain I can land it on anybody else.

3

Yes indeedy. Of course you can hit neutral jump roundhouse on anybody, but with some characters crouching during unblockable setups means you can’t use j.roundhouse.

With Chun/Makoto/Dudley, you barely have enough time to land j.roundhouse in unblockables if they’re standing. If they crouch, it buys them enough time for it not to work. With Urien and Tweleve, their crouching hitboxes seem to allow them to get knocked back by j.roundhouse (or with Urien, any normal). With Shotos, you have to vary the timing of the double-jump depending on whether they stand or crouch; huge damage if you guess right, but I’d rather not have to do that.

Hence, why I’ve tried to find other things that work on them…

-Josh

4

I don’t have problems with dudley or makoto. In fact, I’ve figured out a way to do the dudley unblockable that stupid easy. You can use the fact that he gets up so fast against him and use the fierce yagyou, and just do one dash. I’ve recorded clips of the unblockable segments against makoto and dudley both when they are crouching and standing.

Dudley

Makoto

5

Here’s urien for good measure, I didn’t bother to record standing since I assume you get the point. I can do twelve exactly the same way as urien, although I prefer strong yagyou on twelve, but once again, I have no problems landing neutral jumping RH. I didn’t record the twelve one since it looks exactly like urien.

Urien

p.s. Damn Chun li, she gets up so slow you have to use jab yagyou on her. The only way to do it as I see it is your method of low forward, but it’s hard to chain the standing strong after the low forward.

p.p.s. :lol: I need to start carrying around a PDA or something to keep track of what unblockable sequence to do on what character. :lol:

6

Streak: OK, after watching your videos and spending much time in training mode…

First off, there’s a problem with all of the combos you did there: The j.roundhouse doesn’t hit meaty in any of them. This is very, very important for two reasons:

  1. If it hits meaty, it makes the whole thing unparryable.

  2. If it doesn’t hit meaty, you risk getting the whole thing blocked.

As a matter of fact, in the Dudley video, neither the roundhouse NOR super hits him meaty when he’s crouching. This is why you need to use the strong yagyou instead…

So, essentially, after more practice, it appears to me that on Chun, Makoto, and Dudley, any unblockable with j.roundhouse can be avoided by crouching, as it allows them to block or parry. With the Shotos, you have to guess when to double-jump, as standing and crouching require different timings.

However I do have to thank you for leading me to FINALLY finding reliable ways of using j.roundhouse unblockables on Urien and Twel(e)ve.

Essentially, on both characters, it’s the setup shown in your Urien video but changed slightly: After the fierce yagyou (yes, fierce is better against Twelve too), dash forward once, then jump over them while they’re still in the air. Upon landing, jump straight up (you have to wait a little bit on Urien) and do your thing.

So, with this information, I’ll edit my first post.

Thanks once again,
Josh.

7

I don’t get it, why does it have to be meaty, dudley isn’t going anywhere with a yagyou on one side and oro on the other. He can’t even stand up without getting hit by the yagyou. Just because it’s meaty means you can try to parry out? This doesn’t make sense to me, what difference is there? Here is a frame grabbed from the oro_dudley vid, which shows the yagyou and the jumping RH hit at the same time. How are they going to block or parry both directions at once? Especially since standing up to block the jump in means standing up into the yagyou.

http://www.karathrow.com/oro_dudley.jpg

8

OK, the problem I see is that it’s the SECOND hit of the yagyou that hits Dudley at the same time as the j.roundhouse. This is bad because he can parry the first hit, which would likely screw everything up since the two moves have to connect on the exact same frame. It appears that with your setup, he could parry that first hit, then block/parry your roundhouse and be home free. Your Makoto setup has the exact same problem.

If there’s something I’m missing here, by all means let me know. That just seems to be how this works…

-Josh

9

Personally I think this is acceptable. If he can parry the first hit of the yagyou when he can barely even see himself because of my double jump, good for him. That’s not even the hard part. Now he has to guess, is the RH or the next hit of the yagyou going to hit next? Note that it’s not even doing to be the same every time cause I don’t think I’m that exact. Lets say he guesses right again, parries one and and automatically blocks the 2nd hit coming from the other side. Now he’s in blockstun, and it’s going to take a red parry to stop the last hit of that yagyou combined with my standing strong on the other side of him. IF he can do all that to get out, Bravo I say.

10

I’m don’t understand why you would have trouble landing the jump HK against characters that crouch at all. whenever I do the combos, it never becomes a factor. i am surprised that you guys end up with neutral jump HK to break guard since i always get the other jump HK animation when i double jump across the person. i noticed that streak sets up the unblockable differently than i do so maybe that’s the case. the way that i set up is like this:

(standing strong (1 hit) -> forward chicken stomp) x 2 -> standing strong (1 hit) -> strong SA2 (1~2 hit) - - dash x 2 – jump towards opponent – jump straight up after you go across opponent in the air – jump HK to break guard.

and whenever i do this combo, my jump HK is always the directional jump HK animation even though the oro is only moving straight up and down in the air. i think the key is to hit the jump HK as low as you possible can so that it can catch characters that are ducking.

this setup works on all characters except urien and chun li excluding yun/yang/hugo. however, some characters take 2 hits from the SA2 so all you’ll need to do is dash x 2 after the 2nd hit.

characters that take 1 hit:
shotos, remy, ibuki, dudley, makoto

characters that take 2 hits:
necro, elena, gill, alex

i’m not sure about oro, 12 and Q since i’ve never had a chance to try doing unblockable on them.

with urien and chun what i do is:

…jab SA2 (1 hit) -> dash x 3 -> jump towards opponent – double jump straight up at the lowest point of the first jump – jump HK to break guard.

this is a bit trickier since you will be guardbreaking on the last or second last hit of SA2 with jump HK. if you don’t like this one, you can just omit the double jump and do low short after you land and that should break guard as well and then you can continue with standing strong -> yada, yada, yada.

although i don’t really bother with learning the unblockable setup for chun and urien since i find that it’s really difficult to start the combo and you can’t even tick urien with SA2 cause he’ll just bounce the damn things back at you with aegis. i’d rather use SA3 against urien and chun since it’s just more threatening.

11

since DC doesn’t allow unblockables I have two questions.

  1. Like Urien using Aegis reflector are the unblockables still useable on DC even though its not free damage just make it a high/low guess?

  2. How did you set it up in training mode to practice for the arcade or just turn CPU’s block off entirely?

12

Absolutely. As a matter of fact I still find it useful from time to time, although hopefully with Anniversary Edition this all should be a moot point anyway. :slight_smile:

**

Yep, I just turned the dummy’s guard off altogether.

-Josh

13

Just for the hell of it, here’s the money shot against Alex.

EDIT: Yes, I know it looks like I did the roundhouse early. However, the kick would’ve still been out and connected if Alex ducked.

14

ok …that’s pretty sick …can post that as a vid , could alex escape that ??

15

To quote Alex himself, “You can’t escape!”

As for a video… let’s just say I have a few surprises planned.

16

Bump