Best Blackheart Ever

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
21

That’s, um…

No.

BH should not be coughing up half his life in killing Cammy. The BH/Guile stuff was amusing but nothing I haven’t both seen and done before myself in goofing around. There are times when I think Guile is better for him than Cyclops.

But I was pretty much waiting for that Cable to shoot BH to death. There were probably at least five or six opportunities, and that was in ill-advised chipping efforts alone.

Way, way too much random demon throwing and way too many times where he was hitting the second roundhouse too quickly and floating down to the ground in that mode where he sticks in the last frame and basically can be killed by anything with a projectile. Cable could have gone up with him and shot him at almost any time, and left Magneto or Doom on the ground to make it difficult to go underneath when he did.

The bit about jumping over the standing gun and hitting him with j. rh was cute though, I’ll admit that much.

22

Shut up old man, you’re too old for videogames.

23

thanks again Deathfist and Cooscoos im really trying to get better with him and Stiltman i know im probably wack compaired to you but i am trying and just need to see alot of the stuff your talkign about and post in your threads to understand it im more of a see and then can do it person ya know. lol anyway im glad that you at least enjoyed the vids so do you think my poking methods are effective or not??? thanks again guys i really want to be up in the ranking with you guys one day peace.

24

when is the best time to throw out the second row of demons(hk.) after the airdash or what i get it confused.

25

What do you mean, please explain what situation you’re talking about here. Using 2 waves of demons is situational, and something that I usually avoid… [too many times eating Hail, getting shot by sj HVB, getting followed up by Mags when I do it…]

It’s usually a bad idea. Unless of course you’ve hit a Cable or some other character airbourne [or know you will] and are airdashing with a hk usually after it [sometimes during it but I don’t like the hang time…] to hit them again while closing the distance to destroy them.

Often times I don’t try to hit them with the second one if I think I can get to them while they’re bouncing so that the damage scaling fails to come into play.

I will leave a copy of the Stiltman litmus with it’s solutions here. What I want you to do is print this list off, memorize it, then play back your matches untill you see all your mistakes. Then, imagine yourself NOT making them anymore. You blew it on questions 1, 4, and 8. With the Cammy part, you blew it on 7. The mags part, you made up for it by almost killing him with your pokes solo.

Originally Posted by Deathfist
I decided to Unify the first 2 posts Stiltman made in ?How To Tell If Your Blackheart Sucks?. Due to the size of these 2 posts a disclaimer is warranted.

WARNING:MASSIVE POST ALERT

Litmus in Bold
Solutions in normal

Originally posted by StiltMan
This thread might get mistaken for a troll, but I think that in discussing what BH is really capable of any more, there are so many bad habits that BHs around the country have gotten into that I would tend to say that most of them suck. So here’s a simple litmus test to determine whether or not your BH sucks.

**1. Do you think sj. rh and inferno/HOD are BH’s two main moves? (If you answer “yes” in whole or in part, your BH sucks.)
**

  1. My main moves I use with BH are j. fierce (usually supplemented with Sent-Y), sj. jab, and his short both in the air and standing and crouching on the ground. The most common times I use sj. rh at all is after a sj. jab/strong counterattacking a rush char going over the top, or if I know the opposing char is in some way commited to staying below me (which actually is a superset of the first case). I only use inferno/HOD if I know it’s going to hit or occasionally in endgame situations to chip. I never use it as a general chipping weapon unless I’ve got Doom behind BH and I’ve got an opponent pinned between the rocks and the corner wall.

2. Are you aware that BH’s tail represents one of the quickest range pokes in the game? (If you answer “no”, your BH sucks.)

  1. Just so you know… BH’s st. short (the tail) reaches just a little shy of half the screen away. Probably right around 40-45%. His cr. short is not much shorter. His air short is a little less reaching than his air jab, so the main reason I’ll use the short is if I’ve got an opponent below me. But either way, BH’s tail has sick, sick range for the amount of speed it has, better than basically any quick poke this side of Dhalsim and with a lot more damage potential from combos. You can literally block a launcher from most chars and retaliate with pokes into your AAA of choice into inferno/HOD, infinite, and/or DHC.

**3. Do most characters usually survive your first solid hit with BH? (If you answer “yes”, then your BH probably sucks… I know of at least two team schemes where BH should be killing people on the first solid hit, with only a very few exceptions. BH/Storm is arguably an exception that can get you out of jail here.)
**
3. If you are playing BH/Cable/Cyclops, anything that leads to a Cyclops hit (whether it’s juggling someone who’s jumped into demons, retaliating for a poke, them running into Cyclops cold, or whatever) should lead to an infinite which you then finish off by tagging in Cable on the bouncing character, and from there you shoot them the rest of the way to death. If you are playing BH/Sentinel/Commando, there are numerous ways to DHC HOD (with or without inferno) into HSF, most of which will be fatal in most practical cases. If you’ve got BH/Storm/something and set up an inferno/HOD there, you can DHC to hail as well… this won’t kill anybody without a significant amount of extra damage additionally inflicted before or after it, but it’s useful enough and simpler to execute than DHCs to HSF or infinites into Cable tags, so it can be forgiven.

4. Do you super jump to throw random demons a lot? (If you answer “yes”, your BH sucks. The only matchup where this is really a good idea is against another BH.)

  1. Don’t do this unless you know your opponent can’t either go under you or up with you or whatever. I don’t even super jump for offense at all except on Sentinel or Cable, and even then I’m doing it in cases where I know they’ll have a reason not to go up with me. About the only char I’ll do any kind of half-random sj. rh on is another BH.

5. Do you have a serious application for air judgment day against top tier chars? (If you answer “no”, your BH sucks.)

  1. If you get over the top of either Cable or Sentinel doing their respective horizontal supers, probably on one of your assists, air judgment day is a lot more useful than it looks like. It’s also very easy to DHC into hail, HSF, or whatever.

6. Do you play BH on a team where he’s got a serious DHC to work with? (If you answer “no”, your BH sucks unless it’s because the team has Cable on it, in which case you get a “get out of jail free” card unless you answered “yes” to question 3.)

  1. Serious DHCs here can be anything from BH/Sent-A inferno/HOD DHC plasma storm (Sentinel will have enough time to both assist and DHC, BH/IM-or-Cyclops/Sentinel inferno/HOD DHC proton cannon/MOB DHC HSF (either one of which works… pretty easy to do), BH/Storm/Sentinel st. rh/drones/HOD DHC hail (credit to Viscant for this one), BH/Sent with any third char st. rh/drones/HOD DHC HSF (variant on Viscant’s combo, and yeah, the HSF does work if you time it so that Sentinel has enough time to get out on the assist and then come back in on the DHC) or whatever. If you can do the infinite into Cable tag off of BH/Cyclops (which fills a non-DHC condition of question 3) you needn’t worry about this question… BH still can kill and the means are different than a DHC. I don’t really care for BH/Cable/Cyclops myself because I think BH has more use for a projectile assist than he does for Cable behind him for most matchups. It might help him against an opposing Cable some, but I think stuff like drones or rocks helps him against the rush more than a counter-AHVB will help him against another Cable

7. Does your BH get rushed down for giggles? (If you answer “yes”, your BH sucks.)

  1. With j. fierce, drones, and Commando around, BH should rarely, if ever, worry about getting rushed. With Cyclops instead of drones and Commando it’s potentially hard to rush him down but I’d still prefer having Sentinel back there, especially since BH/Cable/Cyclops suffers the same snapback worries as Team Scrub does against Magneto, whereas BH/Sent/Commando doesn’t. (read: free DHC) Getting your assist char snapped in with no safe way to get out so that he gets rushed down is just as bad as getting your BH rushed down for purposes of this question.

8. Do you know at least two or three different ways to do serious damage to Cable, without getting shot in retaliation? (If you answer “no”, your BH sucks.)

  1. Pick a DHC from the list in question #6, or the infinite into Cable tag into blow them the hell away… or don’t tag Cable and just do the infinite, maybe reset it. If you don’t want to DHC, take an assist that hits a char up to about chest level on BH and do judgment day. No inferno. I know for a fact that Sent-A sets this up fine. It’s possible that Psylocke might. st. rh into Sent-Y into judgment day will also work without needing a DHC. There’s also hitting into Cyclops and do a single sj. rh as though you were going to start the infinite, but instead airdash, land next to where Cable is bouncing by your head, and do inferno/armageddon. The non-DHC, non-infinite-into-tag combos all do about 50% damage anywhere on the screen (except for the st. rh/drones/JD one, which is more like 60-70%), and all of them are perfectly Cable-safe to hit people with.

There are a few other trade secrets here that I’m keeping close to the vest, but even this much is still a lot more BH knowledge than most people know. There are a lot more DHC possibilities out there (I haven’t even given out the one that I use most often myself) and a few other things BH can do, some of which I know and I’m keeping secret and a number that I may not even have discovered yet myself.

Don’t feel bad if you blew chunks on the test. It’s my personal opinion that BH is considered so bad these days because nobody really knows any of this stuff… i.e. the BHs people are judging by are on the wrong side of most or all of these litmus test questions.

26

Almost never.

Search for Stiltman’s vids on Youtube. Those will also help you I think.

Like the thing is, You really don’t want to super jump and throw demons all the time, that’s way too predictable. The only good times for it is if you KNOW that you can get them with that second set.

Normally when I super jump, which is not very often unless it is to combo or something, I usually empty jump, and see how they are going to react to me. When they flinch, I can act accordingly, as I have all the actions still left.

But you don’t really want to be super jumping too too much. Normal jump offense is really great with BH, so try and use it a lot more.

27

ok i got it i see now but what do i type to search for the stiltman vids just his name or what???

28

The poking part wasn’t so bad, although the main thing I’m going to comment on is the second match. There was one instance where you had him in an air to air roundhouse where you didn’t convert with Guile, but I’ll forgive that one somewhat. Guile, Cammy, Commando, all these are AAAs that you should probably always hit those on. Guile is a good AAA against Doom and Sentinel, though, so I like the thinking outside the box there.

Against Cable… other than the j. rh counter to st. fierce (which I’ll admit, I haven’t seen done before, and if I ever get back into an arcade again I might use it if I ever actually see a Cable player in Cali again)… gah… You were basically benefiting tremendously from the fact that that was one of the worst Cables I’ve ever seen on video. Just for a few spot points…

There’s one point where you did an inferno as a half trap with Sentinel assist on Cable when he had three meters. Don’t… EVER… DO THAT! It’s not even HARD to shoot both characters to death when you do that! The drones are going low, all he’s got to do is a normal jump up for the first AHVB, and then he can pump his entire meter into both BH and Sentinel. In that situation, your lifebar for BH was low enough that you probably would’ve gotten BH killed outright and then Sentinel would’ve had to come in with maybe a third of his life, half if you were lucky and the guy doesn’t know how to mash… so you’d have a maimed Sentinel/Cammy against Mag/Cable/Doom. Almost certainly game over.

Inferno/HOD chip on Cable with meter… very, very risky idea, especially when you don’t have a second meter to DHC to Sentinel to save it if he just takes the hit. If you’ve got two meters, and they manage not to shoot you before they’re blocking the HOD and/or you can keep them from shooting BH straight out by making them block something else, then it’s somewhat okay, but I still probably wouldn’t do it anyway.

The j. rh thing is cute, but I wouldn’t get predictable about it, because you never know when a Cable player’s going to start reading it and do a psimitar into AHVB to meet you with it. Probably not going to happen too often, yeah, because even a good Cable would probably not catch it too often just right, but it’s still a possibility that would keep me from trying it too often. OTOH, it can potentially turn into something bigger if you do catch them with it, so until someone burns you for it it’s still generally a good trick.

The flying rocket punch at point blank, low altitude right above Magneto was bad. A good Magneto would ROM you right on the spot there. A bad executing Magneto player might have done something like hyper grav/Doom/tempest, which is largely unmashable. Granted, I already know this was a terrible player you were up against, but that was just a really bad spot to put yourself in. This is part of the pitfall of playing against bad players, is you put yourself in bad position when you’re up against someone who actually knows what they’re doing.

The other main thing I can say in general is, don’t be too quick to abandon the ground area against Magneto. The best way to defend against Magneto is to control the ground and the low altitudes and make him go over the top. His offensive options in this case are badly crippled because you know exactly where he’s going to be coming from, which way you need to block, and push blocking him back out to square one is trivial. You may not win very fast, but you won’t lose very fast that way either, and if you run him into drones/rocks and AAA while you’re doing it, you’ll whittle him down to size. The main mental thing here is not to get bored before the other guy does. (This is the worst mental mistake a BH player can make, is to get bored before the opponent does… if you get bored easily, don’t play BH, because a good deal of his game is to bore people to death. :sweat: )

29

Imma pick up black heart - just because I feel black in my heart. Don’t mess with this NIGGA!

30

Wow, solo Blackheart. Reminds me of one fateful night at Viscant’s house, eh Bill?

31

DO IT!

32

For everyone’s viewing pleasure:

ograndeblackbelis is cabelis on the vids, and he’s playing BH/Cable?Capcom.

33

Deathfist:
Who are you? I’m from Montreal and I have never heard about you before. Did you go to T7?

BTW, our second best BH player is John, not ArcadeKid. His team is bh\cable\cyc.

Anyways, no offense to anyone, but Samnang’s BH is #1. There is a huge difference between his BH and the others. Too bad nobody recorded his matches at his prime, especially when he raped Jwong at NEC2

34

Yes. I attended T7. And I’m from the GTA, not Montreal. There are MANY reasons you haven’t heard of me…
1]I tend to keep my mouth shut as far as the internet goes.
2]I never participate in any matchmaking threads. I don’t even read them. Especially here on this site. I talk strategy and try to help people. That’s it.
3]I occasionally check for when tourneys are, but not often. Chances are that a friend of mine [Ratio1Beatdown, Jiggabry, Gerjay, Lord Magnus, etc…] will tell me if there is a tourney anyways so I don’t bother checking.
4]I avoid the topic of who is better with a certain character than someone else.
-I HATE flamewars, and this is almost as inflammatory a topic as anything else I can think of.
-I kind of got trapped into this one. More about this later…

I know. Blackestheart is John. I’ve seen him play. I also know who his team is. You probably misread my post.
Having said that, I might have confused Arcadekid with someone else. I’m very sure about that now. If the person who took out Ricky Ortiz at T-6 with BH can reveal himself, it is he I would consider 4th. For now, I’ll give Orbitkid the credit.

I view it as a tie between Mustache AKA Samnang and Stiltman. The ONLY reason for the tie however, is because I haven’t seen them play against each other.

I would say that Samnang is better, but it’s very, hard to say that. Stiltman and Samnang haven’t played in my presence against each other, or in any tourney match against each other that has been recorded. Therefore the tie.

Evidence as follows for Samnang…

=9th place finish at T-7 IF he wasn’t exhausted from not getting any sleep the night before, he probably would have finished top 3.
-Yes I was there BTW…].
=1st place finish at T-5 [Defeated Jiggabry in Finals.
-Singlehandedly prevented Tyranidman [Isaac Graham] from winning. [Sent him to losers, lost to Gerjay, Defeated Isaac Graham]
-Beat Jiggabry in 7 games first set, six games second set.
-I finished 11th at that toruney. Side note, there weren’t as many players as at EVO.
=1st place at T-3[Josh Wong finished first in-between. Sam didn’t come in the middle year].

The thing that casts so much doubt as to whether or not Samnang is the best BH of all time is the fact that Evo [World Fighting game championship] has many more players than the T-Series [which is Canada’s National Championship] and that Stilt placed top 25. Placing that high among that many players is very respectable.

I know. That’s without a doubt the biggest travesty caused by non-recording in the history of MvC2.

I heard after Justin lost, he bitched about the controllers, they redid the match, and Sam lost because Justin adapted.

35

=On the topic of Flamewars:

I’m almost willing to bet money that this thread is going to eventually deviate into a flamewar. Many people on SRK cannot discuss differences of opinion on many topics without showing disrespect towards other players. Who’s better with a character than someone else has historically been one of those topics.

Since strategy is being discussed on a character I like, I decided to participate as an exception. If this thread begins smelling anywhere closer to a flamewar than it is now, I’m gone. I’ll find better threads to participate in.

I almost never flame someone now. The reason is because if you flame someone now and they come up with something useful to you later, they might not post it. That plus I hate being flamed myself. As such I tend to avoid treating others in a way I refuse to tolerate in person. Even over the internet.

There are some rare exceptions like this one from the Spiral Q & A - Ducvader Thread I will show you here. http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3519366&postcount=86

Almost exclusively treating others in a manner you approve of is a life lesson you must all learn here. It It is also the basis for all law, not to mention all regimes that will stand the test of time. This single statement makes or breaks all nations. If you continue to allow your politicians to keep treating you in a manner you disapprove of, it will continue.

…

=On people participating on SRK and/or reading my posts:

Your ability to read my posts [and the posts of ANY other SRK members for that matter] is a privilege. It is not a right, it is a privilege. It is a privilege you and other members can choose to not exercise, and even some members [the moderators] can take away.

I for example, can take away the privilege of others of seeing my posts by either deleting them, or simply shutting up and not posting them in the first place.

This is a true story here. I got so infuriated by people on SRK once, that I did a search for and wiped out at least 20 of my posts in one sitting. I simply started deleting posts on something else till I calmed down, and didn’t post on SRK for 3-4 months. Juggerknott who was surprised by the disappearance of one of my posts made a comment about it…

Juggerknott:
-“What happened to your post? I was going to comment on it, but it disappeared?”

My Response:
-“I happened to that post. That’s right, I deleted it along with a ton of past posts. I got sick of the people on SRK and decided to do a purge of my posts.”

The only defenses against someone’s aggressive deletion behavior are to quote the posts, copy them to your computer and or print them. This begs a new question though. Can you defend against the non-participation of others? What if everyone decides to shut up. My answer is I doubt it. I can’t see how you can make me or anyone else on SRK do anything they don’t want to do.

I’m a complete and utter asshole like that regarding the internet. I will NEVER participate in ANY matchmaking or tournament announcement thread again under ANY circumstances. Someone might try to piss me off, and that could trigger an act of cannibalism against all the posts I’ve made that I view of benefit.

I do not have to participate in any thread, or answer any question anyone here asks of me, or post if I don’t want to. Neither does anyone else here. And I’m a vengeful enough bastard that I WILL actually go through the trouble of deleting past posts if angered enough.

Make no mistake. I have deleted past posts of mine before, I have decided to not post in the past when I knew it could be helpful.

I was kind enough to grace you all with my presence on SRK over the past 7-8 years, as most of you have been kind enough to grace me with yours on SRK. Depending on the circumstances, I am not above eradicating my presence almost entirely from this site [or any other site for that matter…]

36

oh I see, next time say hi if we ever meet … but it’s gonna be hard since I’m not going back to Toronto anymore for personal reasons.

Arcadekid has never used BH before, it could be DarkDragon

I know it’s hard to judge since they never played against each other and specially since they use different teams, but to me it’s not even a question, Sam simply took BH to the nexter level

Justin did adapt, but Sam lost the adrenaline that kept him going throughout the tournament. He could have easily placed top2, but after that incident, he wasn’t motivated at all and ended up placing 7th.

37

Well, if we’re going to say best BH, I don’t really need to get into an argument over the whole thing to be honest. Yes, I’m good enough that I’ve beaten the likes of Crizzle and given Chunksta a serious run for his money in the last half year when I was at my best, within a month or two of when both of them finished in the top eight at Evo West. OTOH, if you were to set in my real accomplishments, nothing either myself or anyone else has ever done really holds a candle to, say, Alex Valle, who’s won national caliber tournaments with BH/Sent/Commando. Okay, it was five years ago, but it’s still more than I’ve ever done. OTOH, I’m not sure Valle placed ahead of me in the Evo where I got top 25 either, which was all Sent-A/Cable/BH and Cable/BH/Commando on my part.

If I’ve contributed to the community and advanced BH’s game, great. It’s flattering to hear people say I’m the best BH in the world, and it’s neat to contribute new ideas to the community and get props for it, but I don’t need to be in a competition over who’s the greatest one around.

38

Okay, I will if I recognize you. I doubt I will as my memory sucks.

No, it wasn’t Dark Dragon. Dark Dragon is a black dude that to my disgust didn’t enter that tournament. He no longer likes MvC2 and is STILL insaine at it even now. It was an oriental who beasted Ricky Ortiz, so I’ll credit Orbitkid with it because I think he uses BH, and think he’s oriental.

Makes sense.

This also makes sense. I remember a match I had where I was using Cable, BH, Cyc vs an MSP. After losing the first game and my Cable OCVing him the second using unconventional methods, I was about to absolutely crush him with BH. I had killed 1.5 characters, and only then he complained about the fact that I didn’t start the same character that I beat him with last time. I shouldn’t have indulged him and said too late. Instead, I decided to allow for a replay of the match. I lost the replayed third match for the same reason Samnang lost his.