What do you guys use to counter pick Ryu/ken because those are 10 - 0 against Bison obviously
lol What. Those are 5-5 at worst You’ve just gotta be patient
Does anybody know how to do a search on a specific thread? If so I would search this thread for answers to these questions:
1.What is Bison’s best options after we block the first hit of Abel’s Change Of Direction?
2. What does Bison do vs Ibuki vortex? An Ibuki just showed up in my local scene with the best vortex I have seen IRL, and destroys. I just don’t know what is the best option to get it. I have attempted to spam Teleport to get the hell out of their, but I just get hit.
Are you being sarcastic? I actually don’t find those matchups to be that bad. I just poke at them like an asshole with st. mk all day and beat their low forward every time
- I believe its just cr. lk scissors. Abel’s not that unsafe after that move.
- Psycho crusher and teleport are really bad against ibuki because the kunai come in at an angle that beats psych and she can OS teleport with her neckbreaker, or even just hit you straight up on reaction, especially when you teleport as she is crossing you up you really just have to learn to block this. After you block the initial jumpin, it shouldn’t be so bad. If ibuki tries any of her shenanigans like command dashes or walk up stand jab to keep you in pressure, just punish her with cr. lk to scissors. The key to blocking ibuki’s vortex is just visually recognizing her setups: did she superjump or not? was the kunai delayed or not? Based on this you should be able to block appropriately enough of the time
I am extremely successful against shoto players so I will put down what i know:
Ground game:
-st. mk is the best thing in the world in this matchup. The fact of the matter is that if you can keep them just at or just outside of st. mk range (which should be easy, just throw out st. mk if they try to walk forward or. cr. mk) then ryu is in a very uncomfortable spot. He can’t combo you so you take away the advantage of him doing more damage than you. He doesn’t want to hadouken because you randomly walking up and pressing st. mk is faster and at that range you can get a fat punish if you guess right on the jumpin. If you walk out of that range yourself for whatever reason he can’t really start his fireball game up anyway cuz its really easy to just ex scissors through. If he jumps, it should give you enough time to at least trade with st. mk. Seriously though: just keep him at that range and you will be absolutely fine.
There are three ranges which should define your antiair:
Max range jumps: st. hk for antiair (this is generally best against max range jumps because you can hit them with the tip, thus preventing shotos from abusing their j. hk or j. hp hitbox).
St. mk range: You should have enough time to cr. hp antiair. I know this sounds like bad advice and a lot of bisons don’t like to antiair with hp, but believe me, it works. In fact at this range i sometimes even have time to walk back a bit for absolutely perfect spacing before doing the cr. hp.This will either trade in your favor or win. The reason it is worth using cr. hp even though its so slow (or even st. hp if you’re confident) is because shoto j. hk absolutely cockslaps bisons st. hk which should generally be your go to antiair.
Anything closer than tip st. hk range: JUST BLOCK. Seriously, at this range there is nothing at all you can do other than backdash to get some breathing room or abuse your quick forward dash to dash under. Do not be tempted to try to hit him, because this is exactly where he can get the huge damage bison only dreams of. In fact if you are playing the matchup right, it is the only place he should ever be able to threaten you with damage. Not necessarily by hitting the jumpin, but the resulting mixup with grab, combos into sweep, frame traps, etc. Just don’t deal with that stuff and block or get out of there. If you do block his jumpin then look for a good opportunity to cr. lk through his resulting pressure, but don’t get reckless
Biggest Problem with the Ryu match up is the fact that I have to calculate so many factors before I can do anything, Should I take a chance with this AA S.HK? Should I take a risk with my pressure and tick throw or bait his SRK, Ryu nets so much profit from a single DP/cr MK it is almost never in my favor to try and do anything risky, Trying to keep him from jumping is the best thing to do in this match up but it is dangerous because you have to get close to this monster, where he also has plenty of options, putting Ryu in the corner is like walking on the edge of a knife, one mistake and you either eat a 400 dmg FADC combo or even bigger damage if he puts you in the corner.
This is the only match up where I never even dare to think of crouch teching, anything is better then getting touched by Ryu or becoming victim to his Jump HK pressure, If I have to make a risk, I’ll try to tech on reaction throw damage is nothing compared to what this beast can unleash with an Ultra or meter.
Both of his cauges are very dangerous when active, super more then ultra. One of the biggest fears I have is that the Ryu player fills his super bar, this instantly equals a 350 + dmg hit confirm from anything, any normal special or poke, Its also a good punish tool, If it weren’t for this insanely good super I would have no problem sitting with a life lead, but alas no.
Ken Is not that bad, he lacks the explosive comeback and damage potential, but makes this up with even better Air options and throw game, and an excellent DP reversal, His poking game is dangerous as one command forward puts him exactly where he wants to be, and usually beats a variety of normals, specials.
Both of these matches boil down to a 50 50 game where the one who has the meter is in the advantage and damage wise Ken and Ryu always win, Ryu has a harder time getting in but Ken can mix you up and mash SRK in your face almost instantly. I always thought that “mash that DP mf p…” was like a joke but it is quite literally Ken’s play style, there is no exception to this, I’ve played 15 000 + Kens and 5000+ Kens, and under, its always the same 50 50 game combined with hit confirm jabs into 50 50 ex tatsu set ups and cross up ex tatsus, so aggravating.
10 - 0 is an exaggeration but I’d say Ryu has at the very least a 10 times 1000 - -10000 advantage here
Argh!
Had to get that of my chest…
Yeah I get what you’re saying best bet is to be calculatingly aggressive so you’re always safe but never letting them get their gameplan started
St.mk does not work that well against his cr.mk, sorry it just doesn’t. I have better luck with cr.lk tbh. 6-4 against Bison easily, Ryu has options for just about anything Bison can do all of which are safe or can be made so. Better normals as well hitbox wise. Oh yes let us not forget a thousand and one piss easy ways into ultra/super
Shoto’s have it very good against Bison, especially in AE
I disagree with this completely. Max spaced st.mk DOES beat Ryu’s cr.mk. This is so useful for Bison in this MU. All you need to do is walk Ryu into the corner and then Bison can fully control this match.
This MU is very meter dependent so manage your meter very well. If Bison has full ex Bar and is sitting on downback on a life lead what can Ryu do?
I think the MU is 5-5 though, when Bison doesn’t have meter Ryu can control the space with projectiles but once Bison has meter he has the advantage.
For me: 6-4 for bison
Create ex and U2 with FA and devil reverse and after, just wait, punish read’s fireball full screen with head press, middle range fireball with ex knee press or super, and wait his attack: you can punish all: cr hp beats his jump, tatsu crossup… cr mp xx teleport against FA or ex psycho and use st mk to control your space… just wait, back, teleport, and punish and you win very easy!
You have almost literally one pixel of spacing between beating it and getting beat, not to mention shoto cr.mk comes out a frame faster. Not saying you can’t use st.mk as a harassment tool but spacing for it is strict as hell and once Ryu wises up st.mk loses straightup to cr.mp and standing and crouching jabs.
If you can get the life lead anyways there is very little problem. You have to get it first.
Well we agree to disagree I suppose. Once Bison has meter AND life lead the advantage shifts to his favor but I don’t think its in his favor at all when those conditions are not true.
Devils Reverse is not a good way to build meter against Ryu, its terribly unsafe on start up, active and recovery, I use it a few times during the match but getting too predictable with it makes you vulnerable to big damage punish. Also Ryu cant get full meter otherwise its almost a sure loss.
U2 is lame with the charge motion.
If Abel goes for the regular follow up, there’s only 2 frames for you to do something, so your best choice is to reversal out.
You just have to pay attention to where Ibuki is when you get up. Otherwise you can just do a reversal non-ex devil’s reverse or headstomp to eat the kunai and get reset in the air, but you fall out of her mixup.
ex knee press against kunai vortex is very nice
st:mk is very good against ryu, it has more range(dont matter how small) than ryu’s cr:mk and it stuffs fireballs (or trades at worst). If u do that smartly bison will (eventually) push ryu into the corner. If bison has ryu in the corner he’s winning, and if ryu is trying to beat st:mk with jabs and cr:mp’s he’s guessing…walk up a little and kick him in the face. I agree that this match is (slightly) in ryu’s favor, but not for the reason u listed.
That isn’t the only reason I think its bad, listed a couple others plenty of other reasons unlisted, didn’t want to write a novel on it.To me it does kind of matter how small the range diff is. The smaller the difference the harder and more unrealistic it becomes that you will be able to ever keep that spacing. Doesn’t mean I think it has to be a huge difference but more than one pixel would be nice considering the move is a sim limb hitbox wise.
Not saying its an impossible matchup but more that I don’t think its in Bison’s favor.
Reading the match-ups, is Chun perhaps the best secondary char to use against bison’s bad match-ups?
just to let you know, there is an unblockalbe j.hk/j.mk agaisnt ryu, ken, akuma, eryu, rufus, viper, chun-li, guy, makoto, and ibuki. unsafe vs guy and chun-li when they have ex meter and always unsafe vs makoto. i think ibuki can just lk comand dash and you can’t punish it.
pretty easy to set up, backthrow->dash, wait, jump
look @ 1:02:19 and @ 1:02:24
i see, first ryu don’t see crossup and next time he think “it’s crossup” and lost again, it’s 50/50 ambigous crossup, i don’t see “unblockalbe” just because it’s not block lol ambigous crossup is very difficult to block so why tell unblockalbe just because ryu dont block???