Does Bison have any clear advantage vs Guile? A lot of times my pokes get stuffed by sonic booms it seems. Very sad matchup for me. It’s worst than Sagat in vanilla.
No, it’s in Guile’s favor because you play with the cards he dealt. Most a lot of the things you dish out is kind of easy for Guile to negate. It’s really a timing and patience factor.
Basically you have to space yourself with Guile and get in.
Small picture of typical Bison vs Guile spacing and b.s. http://i38.tinypic.com/352rwau.jpg
Fundamentally, you have to approach some match ups with a different thinking process, this is one of them.
[list][]How many chipped sonic booms can you take to trade in for some clean hits on Guile?
[]Is there enough time on the clock to take more chipped hits and gamble?
[*]Can you get a knock down on him and trick a cross up?
[/list]
Risks involved in this match up?
[list][]Jumping on or attempt cross up improperly; hit by c.HP, s.MP, b+MK, Flash Kick
[]Walking forward to close the distance; EX-Sonic Boom, EX-SB chip, SB chip (but these are acceptable risks to close the gap), f+MK, c.MK>f+MP, b+HP, f+HP, f+HK, b+MK
[/list]
Guile needs to be in the corner for Bison. He’ll have nowhere to go and that’s where you can throw in some Knee Press loop and bait mistakes. Everywhere else IMO, he’s just a douchebag if the player knows how to control this match up.
Does SB recover faster in SSF4?
Sonic boom recovery is the same. His charge time for it is just shorter now: 50 frames instead of 55.
The charge is 5f faster, it’s mainly reduced to deal with fireballs, but it still affects Bison very slightly, say you eat a sonic boom chip pretty close in mid range, he can just toss another one while moving back a little faster if you jump in or just EX-Sonic boom you pretty fast. Sometimes it’s takes extra attention to react to this.
for Guile:
what is good distance to FADC to get in Sonic Boom?? I eat a lot of Flashkick/Throw, even random ultra1…just guess wrong every time I get in…and for most SB-FK repeat, can you hit j.HP and knock flash kick off as bison can do with ken h.SRK?
fo me random EX HS work sometime, if they spam SB too much.
for Guile:
what is good distance to FADC to get in Sonic Boom?? I eat a lot of Flashkick/Throw, even random ultra1…just guess wrong every time I get in…and for most SB-FK repeat, can you hit j.HP and knock flash kick off as bison can do with ken h.SRK?
fo me random EX HS work sometime, if they spam SB too much.
I always like to be within footsie distance (probably around the range of the tip of st. mk). From there or closer (probably a little bit closer), I’ve had good success at ex-sk through sonic booms. I think you’ll have to weather the storm with a footsie battle against Guile until you can get in close.
In the picture I linked, somewhere between the green and black box is optimal FADC range. If you do it too close like in the black box range, you risk eating a f+HK, f+HP, f+MK from Guile.
That or you predict his next Sonic boom and FADC into his face to punish or bait some moves out.
Yeah it’s still about the same as vanilla right now, except you can EX-Psycho Crusher through and close the game a little more consistently–but getting the meter is the struggle everyone has to grind through at the start. Depending on the Guile player, you may not even be given enough chances to build up meter.
Yeah good guiles won’t let u get anything for free, i usually try to stay fool screen, just out of air throw range if i jump, I usually do A LOT of neutral jumps and fADCs, i usually they make a mistake some where like following a sonic boom or something
best thing compare to sf4, after I just get a U2 and they will do LESS SB and FADC,
and thanks for superstarx, that pic is good tool.
and other thing, I just think Guile have very bad wake up option, does he?
It’s just block or guess a good flash kick. Blocking is the superior option because there’s not a lot Bison can do. Crouch tech option select is so strong in this game. Hopefully you can bait something out and punish.
OMG I have so much trouble today, by losing to very good gen player and very good vega, both are respectable non scrub, and I can’t pull a clean win on both.
can’t mess with gen, his normal beat my c.lp/c.lk or he jump too darn much,
vega use CH switch side for s.HP into c.MP into EX, but is not that hard to block problem is he just too fast, can’t punish with reaction.
any suggestion?
I will upload my video against both on later on.
Andre Bison v. Abel is like, 7-3.
For the Guile Matchup- I don’t like staying full screen. There’s nothing Bison can do and there’s everything Guile can do. I don’t even like neutral jump when I’m within footsies range because Guile can walk forward cr. fp and knock me out of the air. Obviously sometimes you need to neutral jump though.
My Guile flowchart is walk forward and neutral jump (not within footsie range) or block (footsie range) sonic booms. Use standing mk and annoy the Guile to death with a footsie battle. He can’t throw booms if he keeps getting hit on startup. Also, he’ll be wary of throwing booms since a good guess = combo (of course if you’re a fraction of a second late, you eat a crouch fierce). Once you get in that range, control is close to even. You have to watch out for his superior normals, but if you can weather the storm you can fadc into crouching short, you can focus his normals, you can start scissor kick pressure, etc. A good guile won’t flash kick very often, but a bad one will do it a good amount of the time. Either way, if you see it, punish the hell out of it. Damage is crucial in this matchup, but sometimes positioning is better. A good way to punish the flash kick is cr. lk x 3 xx scissor -> FADC -> cr. lk x 3 xx scissor which will push Guile into the corner from mid screen. Of course this is expensive and not very damaging. Throw also works since it pushes the opponent closer to the corner and allows safe jump setups. However, others opt for a higher damaging strategy like cl. st. fp xx rh scissors (or hp psycho crusher) and from there you can cross up Guile all day.
If you have the reaction time and you’re really close (like between cr. mp and cr. mk range) you can ex scissors through sonic booms. You can do it from a further distance with EX-booms but I don’t know why Guile would ever throw an EX-boom when Bison has meter. I don’t think EX-PC is very useful in this matchup, but I might not be using it correctly. I find it is generally too slow to punish lp boom. Maybe I need to use it from closer distance.
Not 100% sure how valid this is but ive been using bison crouch jab to reset rufus and cammy divekicks. After seeing Gamerbee use this alot on wong i tried it out in training and in some matches and it seems to have worked.
It works but you have to be careful… Rufus/Cammy can alter the trajectory of their dive kick higher to counter this. Of course if you see this, you can standing roundhouse or jump mp, but you’ll probably eat a huge combo before you’re able to do this.
Yes, it’s kind of impossible to c.LP out the dive kick right after a blocked one because Rufus is at like +5 to +7f after it. For Cammy, it’s difficult to c.LP out the TKCS. She’s at +frames after you block an EX-TKCS. So you just have to eat that pressure sometimes.
Cammy actually has more advantage than rufus after a blocked tkcs. EX-TKCS is even more frame advantage. If you end up blocking one your going to be forced to keep blocking till she hits you, throws you, jumps, gets pushed back far enough you can do something again, or screws up enough to punish. Well in the corner anyways.
Yeah, I heard the EX-TKCS is like +13 on block or something ridiculous.