But you’re part of that feels fine crowd, determining lag by moving a mouse… and you just said your 60" Samsung is under a frame of lag, no Samsungs exist at that size under a lag. It’s closer to 2-4 frames of lag no matter what settings or input you set it at.
There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that my TV with the PS4 right now in PC Mode has 2-4 frames of input lag. With HDMI, and the post-processing settings, yes, absolutely. In PC Mode with most/all of those features off: No.
Fine put me in that crowd. I really don’t care. There is no way I’d be able to do top 10 Pinball Arcade scores or dominate in 3S if I was dealing with 2-4 frames of lag you’re dreaming.
I notice 1 frame of input lag, that is created by the XRGB Mini at my local arcade’s ‘Console Bar’ on vintage systems hooked to BenQ’s. I would notice 2-4 and 2-4 is unacceptable.
Well hate you break it to you but you do not own the magical Samsung panel that has sub 1 frame lag on a 60" TV, doesn’t exist. You have 2-4 with game mode/PC mode dynamic everything, enhance everything off. It’s a fact. You’re going against facts with ‘feel’.
I can’t do a comparison right now, because I don’t have the proper cables to hook my 360 to my CRT, but I’ll test it. It’s just going to require me to buy some cables online, or find them in my closet or something. As far as PS4 I don’t know a way to do that, but it’s irrelevant because my PS4 right now is = to 360 via VGA right now, so if the CRT is quicker, you could be right, I’ll test and let you know in a few days.
The reason I think you’re wrong is because there is zero perceptible lag difference between my =/< 20" PC monitor, Sony Bravia’s, and Samsung all other things equal.
Input lag is tested with the Leo Bodnar device, camera test isn’t accurate and no one uses it anymore to test lag only things like response time.
My hands and brain do not lie, and you can laugh at that or put me in some “category”, I will do the tests myself.
I have pinball machines and arcade machines within walking distance. I can play the real 3rd Strike on a Sega Versus City, so I’ll be mindful to compare the two, and then find some old composite cables for 360 and literally go back and forth. If there are perceptible lag differences, which you may be right about, I’ll feel it immediately and know. I don’t need a machine to tell me.
There was a big controversy over the 360 and PS3 versions of 4. Tests proved inconclusive, yet I feel the extra lag on PS3, so.
Also I understand how people feel about this. Because there are a lot of idiots who can’t tell lag, when it’s ridiculously or painfully obvious and some who can’t even tell 30 from 60 FPS. So you’re just going to have to trust that I’m not an idiot and that I’m sensitive to lag in any form.
Like I said, at that same arcade, the BenQ + XRGMini+ Vintage consoles have perceptible lag of at least 1 frame, which is why I am personally against the XRGMini and don’t recommend classic consoles on anything except SD CRT or medium res monitor. Even if that means RF or Composite; lag is unacceptable on old games. And while I’ve never ran emulators on my Samsung, they don’t lag on my PC monitor so…
Here is the solution for your PS4 or what ever HDMI port you want to convert into VGA it should make it lagless, atleast that is what they write on there website. HD FURY II
I appreciate it, but I’ve already found a solution.
The PS4 via HDMI is = to the 360 via VGA on this TV. The problem wasn’t the input itself, the problem was “forcing to PC Mode” which is a quirk of this TV. Now that I was told a way to do this, that surprised the fuck out of me that it actually worked, I’m good to go.
So in other words, hooking up the PS4 via any other way is now irrelevant, I’m at the mercy of the TV’s lag itself, which I’m told is 2 frames. I find that incredibly hard to believe, but will do some testing in the coming days to either affirm or deny that… But I do thank everyone for their input and ESPECIALLY that dude for his help, I am still in disbelief that worked. So thanks again everyone.
-edit- I wouldn’t trust that link at all man. That has scam/BS/Snake oil written all over it. I’d consult the experts here but that looks like a total BS/Ripoff device right there.
Any kind of processing which that undoubtedly uses will cause lag.
Your tests are meaningless when the facts are out there and you can’t react quick enough to notice frames if you think your 60" is lagless or under a frame. You said wifi was hardly a difference too. Lot’s of people notice lag a low as 1 frame, by the way you’re talking about your display and wifi you obviously don’t.
You are not sensitive to lag and everything you posted points to that.(unless it’s probably over 10 frames)
It has meaning for me.
There is a difference between direct connection and WIFI, but if there’s activity on my network, then it’s fucked either way. My goal with a lag free match is to keep my GF or friends from fucking around using bandwidth.
Input a totally different thing from latency, 3S uses GGPO, the lag effects other things, you set the input lag to 0 and the feel is fine.
You can insult me you can say I’m an idiot who can’t feel lag this and that, I really don’t care. You can sit here and insult me then how am I 95% on Rufus’ 1 frame link? How? If I have 2-4 frames of input lag? I don’t plink either I am a pad player. I must be some kind of insane gaming God then to be able to do 1 frame links on my Samsung then go to the community and do the same 1 frame links with little to no difference in feel on BenQ’s (unless it’s on PS3 then I have to adjust for the 1 frame of input lag in that version, so tell me again I don’t perceive lag)… I can assure you I’m not and that there is little to no perceptible lag difference.
The mouse thing, and PC thing is important. The mouse is one of the most precise inputs there is. If I don’t feel lag moving a mouse around there’s no perceptible lag. That’s because any kinetic movement even the very slightest to a mouse moves the cursor, whereas with Sticks and pads, there is quite a bit more movement comparitely until the button is pushed or the lever hits the switch. You go ahead and link me to your resources showing how my TV has 2-4 frames of input lag, which is nonsense, the only resource others have linked me shows my TV in the “excellent” range whatever excellent means. With default settings in non PC mode oh yes it’s 4 frames at least.
Dude your too funny, “mouse is the most precise input there is” 
It is.
If you move your hand on the mouse, fractions of fractions of fractions of a millimeter, it will result in movement. Whereas when you push buttons on a pad, your thumb actually goes pretty far down comparatively before the “button is pushed”. Likewise with a stick. The space between the joystick and actually pressing in the level/switch is like over a centimeter. So a mouse would be the best lag test in the world really.
Slim buttons on a stick are close though, not the fat USA buttons. Those have enough give to where you can do things like Staging flippers in pinball. I guess console buttons too sure, but mouse for my money is the most precise, because you can move it less than it takes to push a button in. Test it for yourself right now. Any kinetic movement of your hand will translate into the mouse moving, no matter how slight.
I’ll do the tests again, dragging this big ol’ PC into my living room, and really sit down and see if there’s perceptible lag when typing or using the mouse. Not tonight but in the coming days, and let you know.
Not sure why people gang up on you on SRK, this place man :rolleyes:
Knock yourself out, but that isn’t a valid test for input lag at the range of precision that has already been done by displaylag.com. You’re going outside and saying “it feels cold”; they use a thermometer.
Riiiiight.
And you go ahead and you find that “valid” test that proves the PS3 version of 4 has lag over the 360. Doesn’t exist. Yet, it’s clear as day to anyone who can perceive these things.
You guys can gang up shit on me laugh at me I really don’t give a shit.
Unless you used a mouse to conclusively demonstrate said PS3 SF4 lag, I’d say that’s a total non sequitur.
Ok so I found my old 360 composite wires.
It is quicker. I mean it’s weird going from 60" to 13" lol, and you could -almost- blame that for the slight timing difference, but no, I’ll go ahead and say CRT is quicker.
It’s not a frame though. It’s fractions of a frame faster on CRT. I know what a frame feels like that’s not a frames difference. It’s incredibly slight, but it’s there.
I’m still going to test the PC tomorrow I just can’t go hauling this into the living room, she already thinks I’m crazy for moving these boxes around and caring so much lol.
http://www.cnet.com/news/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/ : not saying this is my TV, but there is no way in hell it’s 50ms, that’s what 5 frames. No way. There is no way it’s 5 frames between that and my CRT. Cnet can eat me.
It would not be easy to find a discrepancy if you’re comparing your TV’s “PC/Game” mode (i.e. minimum display processing) to your PC monitor. It’s not like there are PC monitors that have under ~9ms of delay in the total process, and most today are more in the ~11-12ms range. For example that “MLG” BenQ RL2460HT EVO switched to is still 10ms “round trip” (which is apparently 1ms slower than the IPS display I’m typing on right now). The majority would not perceive a difference between something like that and a display in the ~15-18ms range.
Tensho is right in saying that there are no displays that large with total processing delays under ~17ms regardless of how it is configured. Only about a dozen displays above 40" have ever been tested under 20ms. DisplayLag’s testing is the one you should be most concerned with if you feel delay is important because they are testing the full panel frame for total delay, rather than minimum pixel response time (which is generally how displays try to sell their response time).
This is what I’m getting at, I do not care to prove anything to anyone. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe. The PS3 version has input lag on top of the 360 version. Fact. Proof: My brain hands and eyes.
You can quote 30,000 internet resources saying otherwise; I feel it, it’s there, concluded. And it’s something like a frame or 2. Don’t believe me? Cool don’t care. Don’t feel it? Good for you.
-edit- Well what do you know:
So I can feel 1.3 frames of lag, but wait I thought I couldn’t perceive lag at all, I’m just some dummy who goes by “feel” not scientific tests right. Well I said it was between a frame or two and it’s exactly 1.3 frames so looks like my brain is pretty reliable after all.
You do realize that displaylag.com–the site we’re pulling our data from and have been telling you to read–has videos up on YouTube that show the PS3 lagging more than the 360, right?
Can you read? What part of “PS3 has lag on top of 360” did you not get?
Some people here don’t read. They skim and scan lazily until they find something to argue even though you’re agreeing with me lol. Thanks damn this ignore list is filling up fast.