about the OS block/haz it can be used in offensive too not just defensive
One of my least favorite match ups,Akuma is annoying.
He’s the walking definition of dumb, broken shit, but he’s gonna be toned down, and they’re already crying about it (good). However, from what I’m seeing so far, she’s hardly gonna be able to kill him fast and hard with serious authority, like on some of the older games (after neqs went crying to a mahvel mod, I’m not allowed to mention Third Strike apparently).
The better the person you fight, the less you want to be throwing out hcb kick imo, that’s just basics guys. Again, this (lamentably) isn’t Alpha 2 where people would rather crouch and eat that all day, than take a Valle custom up the ass!
OS block / hazanshu seems like it would lose to late dive kick or palm, no? Or do you just do the button press really late?
Yeah mayn, I’ll let you know when I play against better Akuma players than Tokido and Infiltration
More Akuma whining lol. Gotta love it.
I honestly hope they leave him alone, most people cant play him for very good reason. I already dont worry about the matchup much, with the buffs coming in for Chun I will be pretty fine with it. Im okay with having bad matchups as long as they arent unwinnable. My favorite matchups are actually chuns bad ones (Rufus, Akuma, Seth, Viper in that order)
seth is 5-5 /lolers
actually i use it against quick reversals as this loses to late divekicks, delayed demons flips, neutral jump, backdash (you can hit gief for what is worth tho), etc. I find it very good agaisnt shotos in particular those who like to umeshoryu a lot in wake up and specially in abare situations.
ok here we go with the “you cant talk because you havent played X jp player”
No, here we go with the you can’t say it doesn’t work against the best, when it does.
Os block/hazanshu?
Is there video of this id like to see it. I’ve never used this os.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nfbeo95gjU (sorry for the quality i have to re upload this)
i was working on this some time ago, but is not that reliable, just a nice trick it does have some “science” btw.
i have saw how those “amazing players” are beaten with random bs here and there, it shouldnt be an argument at all, if tokido is good or not doenst matter for theorical discussion
On my phone at the moment so I’ll elaborate later, but playing against top-tier Japanese Akumas regularly I still feel this is a 3-7 for her and on the second tier of worst matchups in the game.
tl;cw - Chun has to be extremely precise in her offense and defense against him. She almost never controls the match and has to rely on great reads and punishing mistakes.
the mu against gouki is hard granted
but its not hard just because tokido plays him nor is easier because some random online player uses him, that´s all
i assume we are disscusing theorical MU. Is like when ppl talk about tier list and they dont even know what 6-4 means
edit. just to make sure that we are on the same page here: do you agree with the fundamental concept of tier list? that is player A and player B are on the same level of skill, understanding, mu knowledgment, etc because if you´re not we arent going anywhere with this and if you agree and even then you are saying stuff like “you havent played x player from z country” then we dont have anything to talk about.
Of course I’m going by the fundamental concept of the tier list. I never form opinions based on “Well, I got bodied by this particular player, so…” I lose to KOG’s Hawk all the time but I still know that’s a match that’s mostly in Chun’s favor. KOG is just a lot better than I am. That’s the thing with the Akuma match - I feel like if you take two intermediate players of the same skill level it’s 4-6 Chun, but the higher up in skill you go the more the match shifts from 4-6 to 3-7. As a character Chun hits a limit where Akuma doesn’t and that’s a huge handicap the Chun player has to overcome.
So Chun dies to vortex pretty hard. EX SBK is made almost irrelevant and even if she hits it it only gets Akuma off her for moderate damage. Vortex is low risk/high reward for Akuma, and Chun has to make very specific and precise reads just to not die. On that merit alone I think the match is already 4-6.
Chun has pretty much no good answer for jump-back fireball. If thrown correctly she can’t U1 through them or jump over them without risk of being punished from mid-range. Her best option is to push the screen forward and try to corner Akuma. Akuma in the corner is pretty much the only time in the entire match where Chun has some semblance of an advantage. However Akuma has options for escape and the more aggressive Chun is the easier it’ll be for Akuma to get out. And by this point unless Chun has played a perfect game of dodgeball she’s probably trailing in life, one way or another.
The ground game is kind of interesting - until Akuma gets U1 you can almost treat him like Ryu and she does very well for herself. The second he gets U1 though everything changes. Chun’s super becomes the only true punish for a blocked sweep. Even just trying to whiff punish - if the Akuma player is fairly certain you’re going for it he can cancel into U1 and make you pay. s.rh also becomes iffy - the second hit whiffs on crouching Chun so ordinarily this would be a great punish opportunity for her, but if Akuma cancels into U1 she’s toast. Without Akuma U1 if Chun is trying to play the whiff punish game another way of saying that is “Chun doesn’t get to push buttons until Akuma does.” Maybe if Chun was always fighting Akuma on the ground things would look a lot better for her, but Akuma can combine fishing for a sweep into his jump-back fireball game and the burden is on Chun to not get hit.
One of the biggest problems in this match is that Chun isn’t very threatening to Akuma offensively. Akuma’s teleport gets talked about a lot but let’s not forget that he also has a very good DP that can be FADC’ed. If Chun wants to do anything offensively and the Akuma player knows Chun will be pushing buttons, why not DP? If Chun wants to get in close and Akuma has the meter for it, why not DP FADC? If Akuma just doesn’t want to deal with it at all, teleport back. Blocking and backdashing are also viable options. And if Chun wants to just sit down and see what Akuma is going to do, Akuma can wake up with a throw and completely turn the tables. Chun has to respect all of his options, and as she does so she loses more of hers. Chun’s offense requires her to make specific reads - is he just going to wake up blocking? DP? Teleport? If she’s wrong at best Akuma gets away for free, and at worst the tables are turned and now she has to deal with Akuma’s low risk/high reward vortex.
Chun almost never controls this match. Akuma gets to pick his spots when he wants to go in. He can dish out heavy damage with FADC combos and put Chun in a position where she can to keep guessing in order to stay alive. Chun can’t do the same to Akuma, not even close. When your gameplan revolves around things like “don’t get knocked down, know exactly what your opponent is going to do and punish” that’s where a matchup moves beyond just a 4-6. Rufus is a solid 4-6 but unlike Akuma Chun can actually zone him out/pressure him offensively. Akuma just shuts her down.
I think that’s the problem with the game currently. Pretty much all of the best characters in the game are low risk/high reward characters. They either have vortex games where setups lead into setups (Seth, Akuma, Ibuki, Viper), or have really strong, safe ways to start offense that aren’t easily punished (Fei Long, Cammy, Rufus, Yun, Adon).
The risk/reward issue needs to be sorted out. Chun has to take huge risks in the Akuma matchup for mediocre damage where Akuma can use options with very low risk that grant him very good damage.
But we’ve had this discussion so many times that I’ve lost count.
Without getting into my opinions on Akuma and the matchup against him, I think its pretty safe to say his damage output or his vortex is getting the evo special: nerfed.
Chun doesn’t take risks in the Akuma matchup, you play low risk/low reward all the way through.
Actually, I play all matchups as Chun like this, if you think you can get punished for doing something, then you probably shouldn’t do it as Chun.
Skatan, I think that statement seems too ideal. Chun has a lot of things that she can be punished for, sure. But simply avoiding risk entirely (in my opinion, at least) takes away too much of her ability to do damage. Her oki game goes away if you fear the risk of eating a reversal.
Then again, you are a much better player than I am, so maybe I could do well to take fewer risks myself lol.
idk i just rtsd
I try to play the player more than the character (but I do both). First round against Akuma, im gonna try to ultra his sweep when he has demon. Not every Akuma knows about how they can demon hosenka, and if he doesnt, then im taking advantage of it. I’ve played a lot of pretty good Akuma’s who arent good at demoning U1 anyway. Most Akuma players suck at Raging Demon bad (even otherwise very good Akuma players), so I dont respect it until they force me to.
Fml