Using the cr.LP > cr.HP frame trap may turn out to be a Rufus killer given Azrael’s previous post, too.
If you have enough time to sweep him, you SHOULD have enough time, if he whiffs Messiah, to walk up cr.HP xx Legs, which is gold. Pure fuckin’ gold.
you can CH cr.hp xx hzu from vanilla, i was sure this was something you knew haha
and you can do cr.hp xx LL to punish messiah, i´ve done it, but yeah who am i
cr.Lp, cs.Hp is useful, but I would be wary if the opponent’s defense is on point and even worse, reacts to the hazanshu with a reversal or focus (the latter can be fadc out of if you have two meters). The other reason why cr.Lp, cs.Hk trumps its Hp counterpart is that if you forego hazanshu because your opponent can react with reversals, is that on block, you are -3 at worst for cs.hk. Very hard to punish. Even with the buff in AE, cs.hp is still -6 on block, which means you will have to commit to the hazanshu cancel or eat whatever punish is coming your way. On CH, you can hit confirm cs.hk with cr.lp into any combo that follows cr.lp (or even s.lp and cr.lk). On CH for cs.hp, it is useless for hit confirms.
I like cr.lp, CS HK xx HK Legs xx MK Legs as a frame trap.
It doesn`t do as much damage as HZU, but its safe, can’t be reversaled/focused and you can end it with an untechable knockdown (on the characters where everything hits, that is…).
Are there any opinions on the various strengths of legs used in block-strings? After finally learning the Cr. HP xx Legs piano, I’ve come to realize that situationally all the strengths have their benefits and drawbacks.
What situation does that work in? I know it doesn’t work on shotos because of the pushback and is even worse against them when blocked.
It sounds distance dependent, I’ll test it out in a bit. Seems like far roundhouse could come out in some cases. Maybe replace the stand roundhouse with the crouch fierce since you’re already using it? Hmm
for blocktrings lk has more frame adv, but it doesnt connect fully some times
Malvadisco, I think the trick is to make sure you space your normals so that any legs you choose to use will connect for full advantage.
So here is my attempt at being a legs aficionado.
LK Legs is a good move because it is balanced and safe. Although the pushback is more than the other strengths of legs, it still causes less pushback than attempting to use the MK legs extension; therefore, it is useful in situations where it is desirable to use safe legs mixups and pressure.
Cl. HK xx LK Legs is good because it is +6 on hit, which means it will link into St. HP and is a 3-frame link into EX legs. It is fair to use a bar for such a safe and versatile string if a knock-down feels necessary. On block, being +2 means you have the option of continuing pressure with jabs without risk of being poked out. That fact translates to mix-up opportunity and trains your opponent to respect the other strengths of legs, even though they are more negative, which allows Chun to advance closer.
As is popular knowledge, Cl. HK is a standard button to press when attempting to punish crouch techs. It’s a good button because it makes a convincing threat that Chun is going in for a throw; i.e., Chun stands up and often walks forward before she uses Cl. Hk. It’s important to space the Cl. HK so that LK legs will connect with the last hit in order to maximize frame advantage.
Cr. HP xx LK Legs is usable in footsies because it doesn’t require Chun to get too close. If your Chun is being allowed to barge into Jab range, or happens to end up there through circumstance, then this follow-up string is a way to pull a fast one on the blocking opponent. It doesn’t “blow up” crouch techs as well as Cl. HK because the reality is that making a convincing display means Chun needs to stand up and in situations where this string is useful, she will be too far away to be threatening to throw. This move does add variety to Chun’s pressure game and trains the opponent to accept long block-stun.
LK Legs works well as a follow up on its own in a few situations. After a cross-up LK, many people will throw tech since the advantage is low. This is possible to execute with piano skills. Since LK legs is a 4-frame move, it works well as a frame trap. In this situation, LK legs is confirmable into MK legs extension meaning it is possible to use the loop or sweep ender after confirmation. It is also an OK tic-throw on block.
That’s all for now. I feel LK and MK legs both are underestimated moves among Chun-Li players because I underestimated them for a long time. Everybody likes HK legs because of that pixel forward it moves Chun-Li, and that is a big reason why it is strong, but there are reasons why the other strengths of legs are strong. Variety is important to Chun-Li’s mixups.
=) I hope this was useful to everybody as it was to me writing it.
Hi,
Massive lurker here, not really posted much at all.
I’m going to try my best not to make this post a massive whine, lol, but I was looking for some input into the Makoto matchup. I feel the matchup description in the OP is somewhat out of date.
This matchup I find is generally considered in Chun’s favour by most people but after playing it extensively I can’t actually understand why.
I’ll try to keep this fairly brief and just outline what I in particular struggle with.
I find Makoto has alot of ways to deal with Chun’s normals - great focus, great dash, and her own normals particularly up close aren’t exactly shabby and can beat out alot of Chun’s (Mak’s st MP messes me up all day lol). Ex Hayate whiff punishes loads of stuff, leads to a knockdown and pushes back towards the corner.
I struggle to pressure her too - the usual safejump setups I use on other characters (f.throw dash setups, or jRH off of ex legs, or j.mk off of a sweep) all lose to either lp fukiage and/or ex command grab. I’ve started using empty jump mixups/kikoken pressure after knockdowns instead with some success but I never feel like I can maintain decent pressure for very long. Once Mak has meter and gains the armour on her command grab Chun needs to be wary about pressing buttons or using meaty setups on Mak’s wakeup.
I find anti-airing her an absolute bitch too. I’m most succesful with cr Mp, but it does no damage, doesn’t knock down and can’t be comboed from so it’s not much of a deterrent to Mak jumping. I had some success air to air with jmp and jhk but Mak can change her jump arc with axe kicks and her air normals are amazing also so it’s not a reliable method for me. I definitely try and keep grounded now.
I find her command grab more difficult than most to avoid. Against more traditional grapplers I’d use jb HK but Mak can punish it on hit, or neutral jumps which is a terrible idea given Mak’s lp dp and chuns floaty jump. The only thing that works consistently is lk hasanshu, but that’s not safe either.
And then there’s her backdash. If I predict it I can punish with dash ex legs or hk Hasanshu - but I can’t do it on reaction and if I misread I get punished.
To summarise I just find the matchup an absolute grind and I feel like I have to work so much harder than Mak does. I can keep her out for ages with pokes that do no real damage and don’t gain me any momentum, only for her to land one jump in or command grab and I’m cornered and/or stunned. I think the problem is Chun can’t easily convert one hit into a decent amount of damage and Mak certainly can - with Chun’s low HP and stun it seems I can play a perfect round make one mistake and suffer severely for it. Mak seems to be able to get in my face and pressure me with much mroe ease than I can keep her out or pressure her.
Ok so keepign it brief and non-moany hasn’t really worked… lol.
I’m not here to whine (honest), I’m just obviously doing something very wrong in the matchup and would like some practical tips on how to approach it. Keeping her out with pokes just isn’t workign for me cos I feel Mak has lots of way’s to deal with that. Against random Ranked Mak’s I don’t have a problem but offline in a prolonged set I find it a complete chore.
Thanks for listening to a below average Chun - here’s hoping you can all help me with some advice 
Sorry if this is a bit of a rambly mess but I’m at my job typing whilst pretending to be working too…
Hmm, just to throw some of my Mak specific ideas out there… I’m not at home right now.
On wake-up, Cr. Mk xx Hasanshu works pretty well. If she uses EX Grab, you will poke her armor and jump over her throw. If she uses over-head, you will not cancel cr. mk and you will also recover in time to block high (just keep holding back after your input, right?) It’s option-selecty… kind of open, but pretty effective. Most definitely not brain-dead.
Makoto has a fast dash, so if she’s blocking she could try to react by focus absorbing hasanshu and dashing in to grab you. Maybe it is a good idea to keep 2 bars just in case, to react to that specific situation with ex back dash.
I find Back MK occasionally effective in this matchup, because she might run into it. It’s useful to catch stray st. mp that Maks sometimes throw out there.
I don’t have a lot of experience with Mak that I’ve had trouble with. So… st. mk doesn’t work as anti-air? Have you tried cr. hp–good anti-air hit box there and lower to the ground so you have a bit more time to react.
Yeah, that’s all I can think of. Chun can definitely put pressure on Mak, so I hope that’s helpful.
Thanks for the advice:) def gonna try using the cr mk to hasanshu to counter the ex grab, that sounds simple and viable, being safe against overheads a bonus too
St mk does work as aa but like all her aa’s it’s spacing dependent and if mak throws out an axe kick to alter the jump arc chun can lose out badly. I need to just get the timing down and have confidence to use my aa’s more against her but I’ve lost half my health from fucking up one anti air so many times that I’m overly wary I think. But just blocking leaves her in my face which isn’t ideal either.
I never use cr hp as an anti air and I don’t really use tenshokyaku at all so they’re def things I’ll try and work into my game, not just against mak but in general.
Thanks for the post it gives me a couple of things to try out that I’d not considered.
Any input from others would be appreciated too. I play this matchup a lot and I’m in a rut with it so need to rehaul my whole approach.
Don’t forget you can safe jump her from a forward thrown an OS to beat all her options, forward throw, 1 step forward jump hp (late/deep) then hp/hk. If you do it right the second hp won’t come out as you’ll be grounded (that’s how deep you need to be lol) but if she backdashes or does EX overhead you’ll beat it with cr.hk…
This MU is a nightmare imo as if Mak spaces right she can stuff all your pokes, she doesn’t need to keep dashing in she can just space you out really well and get you to the corner. Once there you’re in real trouble and be careful she has an unblockable on Chun 
If the Mak you play is a pure rush down Mak then just wait for a dash and then poke with st.mp (be creative after it and mix up your options) do that a few times and she’ll start jumping which st.mk does beat all her options so learn to use it. If shes at full (or close to) screen and has EX you can sit and kinda spam cr.lk a bit if she EX dashpunches you’ll stuff it.
Other stuff, err never or try to use it very rarely raw backdash on wake up she has options to stuff it or OS it really easily, same for EX SBK (its not great in this MU). Your best option is to focus in your wake up frames then backdash.
I beat most Mak’s I play by just turtling and poking them when they dash in which makes them scared and allows me to then start my offence (as Mak’s defence is really not great). However the Mak I’ve been playing recently just destroys me REALLY badly so I’m learning a lot about this MU and given this Mak I play is on my friendslist and is err the best lol I generally feel that I won’t lose to ANY others at all now lol… just got to AA every jump in and stay neutral, try to hold you ground and make sure you know your poke distance as Mak’s walk speed is poor so most will dash, which if you’re spacing right can be punished.
Also st.mp xx EX Legs (or cr.mk xx EX Legs) is really handy to blow up her use of focus, however Super when stocked does punish like EVERYTHING practically.
In other news I’ve been away for a while (very busy and personal stuff as well) but I’m kinda back, sort of, well a little but not like before so have I missed anything? Anyone (4Neqs lol) I’ve let down I’m sorry and I hope other people have helped you. Also I might, might start uploading matches against people on my friendslist (if they don’t mind) so you’ll see me losing a lot more but I think it might help some Chun’s on here as the matches will be against ERRR good players so it might help to demonstrate what you can and can’t get away with (for addressing those bad habits people have cos it works sometimes).
P.S. I am still planing on making my Wii’s Guide to Chun video when I get the time and it will have a lot of tech in it
I hope to still get some kind of pm response before that vid comes out :shake:
Thanks Wii, especially for the safe jump set up! The safe jump set ups I usually use were useless against her so will be trying that one out.
The mak I play is pure rush down. Relentlessly in my face and he’s not scared of running into my pokes at all because he’s only got to get in on me once to get a lead. He’s so annoying purely because he pays no regard to what I’m doing, he just does his thing and keeps doing it and he’s not scared of taking damage on the way. He doesn’t respect chuns options in the slightest and to be fair I don’t think he has to. Mak can fuck chun up pretty quickly and IMO has better comeback potential than chun too( karakusa>u1 has lost me so many rounds I thought I’d won it’s silly lol)
Mk as an anti air is something I’ll have to work on the timing as you say it beats all her options, I must have just been mistiming the occasions I’ve been wrecked for trying it.
You’re right bout ex sbk n backdash bein useless I find it really weird trying not to use it as I’m a player that prob back dashes too much lol
Again, thanks for your time. Hopefully I can translate it into a few more wins
On 3s, Chun c.jab stopped Makato dead. On AE, you can trying vert roundhouse, or air throws. Just stay off the ground, use flip over sparingly, and throw the shit out of her. Grab~ultra is sick, but then you only need one low short for U2.
Hey I think I played you the other day? Hi
I tend to use ultra 1 in this matchup tbh, it scares him on my wake up and beats overhead and karakusa so forces him to back off a bit. You can catch backdashes with it too.
Which ultra do you guys use? I’ve toyed with both but find u1 more effective. It also beats maks U2 at most ranges if they decide to use it and it’s fairly easy to bait out against a lot of mak players.
Oh and I try to stay ON the ground actually. Maks got easy aa’s. The mak I play dashes under me and mp as I come down the other side, or she has dp and good air to airs so I’m trying not to jump much unless maks on the ground
Do you have any vids of that? As with most unfamiliar matchups (as opposed to the obvious U1ers) I generally use U2 until I find something U1 punishable for a particular character.
Staying grounded (but moving) is good for her in general. I’ve zoned most Makoto’s I’ve encountered with kikoken/far s. hp/ye olde handy far s. mp with much success. As long as she doesn’t have U2 and I’m spaced correctly, I’m good. Command/EX command grab to U1 definitely melts life leads though.
Nah I dont have vids but it works in the same way as Adon’s jaguar whatever it’s called, the wall bounce one. Just release it as she leaves the wall. It’s easier than Adon’s though as you have the ultra freeze to prepare and build charge. It can be spaced though to land the other side of chun and punish you but if you’re used to the spacing you can look out for that and just not ultra. I have auto-corrected and punished it though sometimes.
u1 cand punish a few things of makoto actually like lp hayate and cr.hp