Or like I said Ultra 1 it if you have the charge, basically if you can react with neutral jumping HK you had the time to react with U1. Also U1 will punish light, medium and hard (EX apparently though I never react in time to that one)
Hm - you’d have to really be looking for this to do it on reaction when Adon lands.
Can you create footage of this? My understanding was that typically a move had to be -7 or higher to punish with U1.
You just ultra as soon as you see him hit the back wall, he always falls into it and becomes pinned… I can make a video of it but for reference Meeks does it in this fight at about 40 seconds in or something…And then again at 1:40 (against 2 different versions)
[media=youtube]aejDSumAh_8[/media]
you can punish the EX on reaction, is not like punishing lp sonic boom either (yeah i know online and what not)
I had no idea. Is the SRK frame data “more correct”?
Also, Meeks, you have some killer reactions. I could never* do that =P
Forgive me; I don’t mean to beat a dead horse to death, but the SRK frame data says is starts up in 4F as well. Can anyone elaborate?
it also works with ultra 2 on his hard & ex jaguar tooth’s…
this is when i was messing around online
play at 1:15
[media=youtube]hIZAMXghsWA[/media]
Oh man, that was sweet! Dude must have been so mad, haha.
lol serves him right because a lot of people from New Zealand make Australian XBL accounts… it gets annoying because Australia’s internet is worse then New Zealand’s…
back to the topic just play different adon players to get used to the timing also don’t focus because adon will break it. just block & go for pokes…
It’s actually not all that hard to react to. Once they hit the wall, you have enough time to buffer the motion and press 3 kicks as soon as he leaves the wall. However, I have since turned to ultra 2 for this matchup, since the Adons I play these days just don’t random jaguar tooth anymore if I have u1 stocked.
Meeks, I’m leaving for a Fight Night in five minutes; I hope the guy that plays Adon shows up xD
Thanks for the tip.
any advice on dive kick pressure from yang and the twins especially.
any go to poke that can be relied upon to keep them off if timed right?
playing a great player in endless who wouldn’t let up. was kind of a blowout when he got in, when he didn;t and i was evasive enough i manage to grab a few rounds
The matchup is against the twins is hard for this reason. Anyone who plays the twins decently enough will get in eventually, and when they do, it’s all pretty much guesswork on defense.
Edit: Probably should have answered your question, but a combination of jabs, st.hp, and cr.hk can work against dive kicks, but the variation in timing and distance that can be controlled for the dive kicks makes it difficult for you to know reliably what counter to use. Sometimes I’ve used lp~lp + hp, or jab~cr.jab + cr.hk with some success, but even then, you can be baited and whiffed punished if the Yun/Yang player is reading it.
Guys… how the HELL do you beat Bison?
Most of the time when I get hit with scissor kicks, ex legs wont punish, it depends on how it hits.
A lot of bison players dont go for head stops, so air dominance isnt there
his one kick is such a great anti air
Please tell me everything you know about beating bison. I cant stand how stupid Bison players are able to play and get away with it.
And when I say “beat them” I dont want to have to play them more than 2/3 to download them. I need legit matchup knowledge that exceeds that on the first page
Victheslik, who is one of my closest friends, is one of the best Bison players in the US (comparable to, say, Jago, Hugo101, AndyOCR).
I have a LOT, a LOT, A LOT – of matchup experience against Bison, and I’ve detailed it out a bunch of times before. I’ll see if I can find it.
i would love you forever if you could do that for me
Re-Repost on the Bison Matchup, with even more added details:
-
If he starts zoning you on the ground with f.st.MK or f.st.HK, EX Hazanshu. The startup invulnerability will get you past his leg, and Bison has two options from there - block if he has time, or get hit. Do it enough and he should stop zoning you whenever you have meter.
-
For a meterless punish on his standing HK or MK, if you’re brave, do a quick Focus Absorb, then dash in and throw. If you want to be braver, train him to throw tech after, then dash in and Hazanshu (to blow up his throw tech) > cr.LK xx EX Legs.
-
Be aware of his ambiguous looking crossups. Off of his backthrow, he has a very easy setup where he can jump from the same position and either will or will not cross up based on which button he presses (usually HP or LK/MK).
-
If his block strings aren’t tight, cr.MP after a blocked Scissor Kick, then cr.MP or Sweep after (regardless if it hit or was blocked) in case he pressed a button or tried to do something else.
-
Generally speaking, cr.MP goes under or beats most of his ground pokes. Cr.MK also works well in footsies.
-
Be careful about walking back if you are mid-screen distance, his Sweep/Slide is deceivingly fast. If you think you can bait it though, start walking back and then charge focus and backdash. If you do this right, you will backdash in time to block if he does Psycho Crusher, but also will backdash in time to Focus Absorb his Sweep or cause it to whiff. Worst case scenario, you backdashed for no reason and are now at a safe distance.
-
Never charge Focus up close against any halfway decent Bison player - he has too many ways to punish you for it.
-
Chun’s Sweep beats his Devil’s Reverse and his Headstomp followup (Skull Diver) - but not Headstomp itself… however…
-
In Super, df+LK was a good go-to anti-air against Headstomp, the Headstomp followup and against Devil’s Reverse. However, in ARCADE EDITION, df+LK is a bad choice against Headstomp. It will trade - he does more damage, and you are out of range to follow-up with Ultra 2. If he did EX, he does a lot more damage, and he knocks you down. Don’t bother trying to use it against Headstomp / Devil’s Reverse in AE.
-
There is an easy way to tell the difference between Headstomp and Devil’s Reverse if you are paying attention: Bison gains meter on execution for Headstomp (as soon as he leaves the ground), but if he did Devil’s Reverse, he won’t gain meter until performing the actual Devil’s Reverse in the air. If he does empty Devil’s Reverse, he won’t gain any meter at all. If you watch his meter (and if he doesn’t have Super), it will make it easier to tell when he does Headstomp versus Devil’s Reverse.
-
Be aware of the fact that some Bison players like to use empty Devil’s Reverse as a mixup, then throw you on landing since you are expecting to block. Something that can help is trying to do a late throw-tech whenever you think you should get hit by Headstomp. If he throws you on landing you will tech, if you did it right and he actually did Headstomp, you will block (because of late throw tech). Bison theoretically can empty Devil’s Reverse into Ultra 1 to punish you for trying to throw him. It’s unlikely he’d try but be aware for it.
-
On his wakeup, utilize j.HP HCB+Taunt option select (fierce-fierce, or HK Hazanshu upon landing) to punish him for teleporting. This will also get you to safety if he tries to use a Psycho Crusher or Scissor Kicks on wakeup.
-
On your wakeup, EX SBK is usually a bad idea as he has a lot of options for stuffing it. Blocking is almost always your best option. Second best is backdash. However, EX SBK can be useful inside blockstrings.
-
In the air, if Bison only connects one j.MP instead of two (his air target combo), he can follow-up with a lot of moves on the ground. However, each of his followups is a reset. A lot of Bisons who do this like to cancel the followup into another move like Scissor or Psycho. You have an opportunity after the reset to EX SBK and it will beat whatever he cancelled into.
-
Airthrow beats Bison’s Ultra 2. If you miss on the airthrow, you still have time to punish him after he lands. In fact, in my opinion, any time you are both in a neutral state and he does Ultra 2, you should jump forward and airthrow. If you miss, you can still punish afterwards.
-
Be very careful about Bison players who do Psycho Crusher after a knockdown because it can crossup. The timing for it is weird, so if it seems like he did Psycho Crusher too early, block the other direction.
-
If Bison jumps in, something I have been trying lately is cr.HP xx MP Kikoken. The cr.HP brings Chun low enough to the ground so that she either anti-airs or ducks his jump-in, and if you hit him with it, you get the cancel into MP Kikoken (which is impossible to punish because of the amount of time it takes for Bison to get back onto the ground), if not, you’re almost even frame-wise (slight disadvantage on recovery from cr.HP). It’s a tool I started using against Adon’s Jaguar Tooth (off-the-wall dive kick) initially, and realized it had uses in other matchups as well, namely this one.
-
Bison has a pretty good forward dash. I have seen a lot of Bison players Focus Absorb absorb a poke, Dash Cancel and throw on your recovery. If you can hitconfirm Swedish Firecracker (st.MP xx EX Legs), definitely do that any time you are going to poke at him. Otherwise it’s going to be intuition, whether or not you think he’s going to Focus Attack. If you can’t do Swedish Firecracker at all, a modest substitute is using only st.MP to poke, and then following up with Jab or cl.st.HK xx EX Legs/Hazanshu if he dashes in. You might not always get it in time but it does work occasionally.
-
Due to Bison’s good dash, I suggest using faster pokes. I would try avoid f.st.HP and f.st.HK in this matchup except as anti-airs. I like to use st.MP a lot because I know I can cancel it if I need to, plus it also recovers fast enough to throw tech if he focus absorbs and dashes in.
-
Avoid using EX SBK against Bison’s jumpins. When spaced correctly, his crossup can stuff EX SBK, and so can his j.HP. Either block, nj.HK, or jump-back HK/MK.
you cant punish LK scissors because they are 0 on block, you can only punish the mk, hk and EX version (hk and ex are u1 punishable), learn the range of the lk scissor and as a visual cue the mk and hk flips a bit longer and as a rule of thumb if the scissor hits you once you can´t punish it, once you learn the strings and scissors ranges you can focus bait poorly spaced scissors (ie. after two reps of lk scissors a third one would hit just once, in which case focus lv2 is a fine punish). Against his st.hk is all about positioning, chun and ryu are some of the few characters that can hit his AA st.hk with her own j.hk. Ultra of choice for me is U1, since you can dash hosenka devil reverse and reverse hosenka against point blank EX psycho crusher (tricky but doable). In the corner you have to respect the pressure like i said before the lk scissor loops are not infinite lockdowns, specially in AE due the “nerf” on the push back and the cr.lk hurtbox, if anything learn the patterns, usually after a blocked scissor most bipsons choose from the following:
- another lk scissor (by far the most common, pretty safe with correct positioning/blockstring)
- cr.lk (this is the fastest attack and you should not press a button after the first blocked scissor, because you will lose to this w/o iframes)
- st.hk (his main use is for prevent jumps, you can not punish it on block, but after you block this you can use this opportunity to poke; if you are crouching this wont hit you, whiff punish it)
- cr.mk (not as good as the cr.lk but it has more range, usually thrown after the 2nd blocked scissor)
- cr.mp (same as cr.mk, as a poke is really solid and very underrated for most bipson players)
- st.mk (when st.hk isnt tagging you the 2nd alternative for bipson is this kick, respect it, if you know the pattern you can jump this)
- Ex scissors/psycho (this is mainly gimmicks, if the bipson knows that you are pressing buttons he will throw this out, beating almost everything you do, including and specially backdash/focus backdash
- nothing (yes nothing, baiting stupid EX SBKs, take this opp to walk and throw them, be careful with the cr.lk tho)
- dash into throw (very frustrating when you get stuck in the ghetto vortex)
Learn the proper OS to punish teleports, for the most part this is a fight that you will always win if you have the lead, bipson ultras are very poor and they dont fulfill their role as ultras (aka comebacks), avoid the corner play this fight in the middle, hold your ground and punish silly reversals, if bipson has meter dont rush him, bait him, if he doesnt have meter OS him to death he doesnt have nothing to do w/o meter. There may be some info left behind, but any question you have i can help you i used to main bipson during super and AE, now i just play him as a sub.
That’s no vortex, that’s just a lockdown.
And overall the most common thing for a good bison to do when he has you in the corner is react to what you’re doing.
If he has the health adv. then he can just sit there and use lk scissor like a better version of a fireball lockdown.
What i’ve found is that most bisons don’t have the patience to play that situation to it’s full situation, doing random scissorkicks “on a whim” because “it’s probably safe”. Instead they should be looking at players that are great with fireballs like Daigo, Choi and Ryan Hart and see when they throw one in that situation, that’s when they should be scissoring.