Just a thought… Yun’s divekick is listed as 9+7 frames and - 3 on block. I take that to mean he has to be airborne for 5 frames before he can execute divekick (jump startup is 4). If he hits the opponent from that exact height, he is -3 on block. There are 4 more active frames before Yun touches the ground, so does that mean he is at best +1 on block from a divekick?
Edit: Watching NSB stream right now… http://www.ustwrap.info/multi/nsb2::nsb3::godsgarden Y24 loses to Yun… but mashes backdash out of a very low blocked dive kick. Ibuki who plays him next does exactly the same to get out of pressure. Seems like a common enough strat…
Edit 2: Does anyone remember how much advantage Chun gets off sweep? The thread that had that info got deleted. ;____; I want to think up ways to set up cr. jab on wake up… it doesn’t even need to be meaty to beat Yun’s HK DP, just exact. In fact, anything that puts Chun at +2 should force Yun to block cr. jab assuming Chun is frame perfect. So… blocked lk legs, Blocked DF HK, and MK SBK on hit are legit to keep up pressure… O/Sed with sweep and the threat of tic throws… Chun actually might have a decent offense against him… plus he has a fat hitbox for legs into sweep.
Been playing against quite a few yang’s lately, dunno if this applies for yun as well and don’t mind me if this has been mentioned or disproved already, but CR.HK seems to be a reasonable AA against dive kicks if you have the proper spacing. Gonna mess around a bit more with it to see if it works out well
Sweep works against dive kick, but it’s easy to mistime it since the twins can delay their dive kick and just hit you on recovery.
Kind of like, in Super, I was playing against a Juri who jumped in at me. I used df+LK to try and anti-air for a juggle with U2 to win it - I’d been using df+LK as an anti-air the entire match - literally JUST outside my hitbox the player activates EX Dive Kick to delay airtime and cause my anti-air to whiff. Then he used Ultra 2 to seal the match. T_T
The Twins example is not as bad, but just be aware they can easily open you up with a combo if the dive kick catches Chun on recovery.
I pick Ultra 1 against the twins. I started off picking Ultra 2, but df+LK isn’t reliable enough in AE, and Ultra 2 doesn’t do enough damage to offset the amount of damage they can do via their pressure and rushdown game. In virtually every other matchup I don’t care about how much damage my Ultra does, but against the Twins I will take whatever I can get.
Here is the reason I pick Ultra 1: whiffing palm to build meter. As soon as you see them step down or make the sound indicating they’ve committed to the palm (rather than the fake), Ultra 1.
Against Yun, ANY shoulder is punishable with Super.
Against Yang, ANY Rekka is punishable with Super (unless he cancels it into the next one). The only one that isn’t punishable is his very first EX Rekka, but chances are nobody is just going to do one EX.
For Yun, his recovery is 5, all palms the same except EX, for which recovery is 21.
5 recovery is deceiving though because he has 15 active frames before it – as long as you hit him with the first active frame of Chun’s Ultra (when she still has invincibility) you win.
For Yang, 11f recovery for MP, 9f recovery for HP, and 13f recovery for EX. All of them have the same number of active frames, which is 13f.
Technically you could even punish the feint if you were fast enough, it takes a total of 23 frames for Yun and 24 frames for Yang.
Compare to Guile’s jab boom. If you are reacting to the fireball, which appears on frame 9, then you’ll have 20 frames to react and punish. If Yun’s fireball comes out when he stomps, you have 19 frames to react. That’s harder than I originally thought.
I still believe it’s possible, but the two times I have tried it in practice I completely fucked up and died. haha Those feints really challenge your focus, because you need Ultra as soon as you see that foot hit the ground, and you need to be in range to hit their body because their arm will have retracted by the time Hosenka comes out.
Technically yes, but Guile’s jab boom comes out much faster, whereas the palm has more startup time than Jab Boom. It has 23 frames of startup (Yun’s does, at least, I didn’t check Yang’s), so at least you’re mentally ready to react in case he stomps his foot down.
I don’t know, the only time I’ve missed a punish on the palm is when I tried to do it from too far and lost my invincibility while palm was still in active frames. On the other hand, I have gotten blocked after trying to punish Jab Boom multiple times.
SnakeAes
As a matter of fact I did just that. I want to see if I still have that fight in my log. Basically he was a pretty good yun, had a several nice combos and good mixups --yeah his super is super f*ing gay btw-- but I dont’ think he was really sure how to handle Chun so it played in my favor in that regards.
with him at a life lead and nearly having his super stocked i just went for broke and said what the hell! he kept doing the palm to all my kikoukens and he really wanted to use his super again so as I was standing back he would do the palm and I did Hosenka as soon as I saw his hands come out.
pretty much got lucky in my opinon but it got me the win, lucky in the fact that it wasn’t the Lp-fake haha
good to know now that this is truly viable meaning you can possibly bait it.
My favorite is to fireball after a hard knockdown, so they’re looking at the fireball as they’re getting up and not realizing how close you are or that you’re sitting on charge.
That same thing happened to me, except he blocked it. He was just messing with me from almost full screen with the life advantage, using lp feints… then I ultra’d and whiffed when he used the real one. Which gets me thinking about why I was in that situation in the first place.
I am starting to feel like this is an Ultra II match. Chun can only punish palm when she has revenge meter, but she doesn’t build it in this matchup except by getting hit. If Yun really wanted Super in round one, he would backdash and just do it. In this situation, would you rather back off and build super or approach him?
Chun can build meter almost as fast as Yun by using Legs and Kikoken. Both supers have their rewards, but Yun can create more opportunities with his. Approaching Yun is difficult because his pokes are actually good, and he can attempt to counter you with divekick; however, if you know the bad ranges for dive-kick, you can attempt to outspace him.
I would rather approach him and build meter as I fight him, same as any good Yun would do against me. Backing off seems ineffective, so I might as well get to it. Besides, he’s free on wakeup without meter.
Off forward throw, a meaty jab is as easy as just doing an empty jump into cr. jab.
Off Sweep, the dash dash cl. lp cr. lp works, although it is a little tougher to execute.
Alright I haven’t checked what ANY OF YOU GUYS said, but playing against Yun, takes great patience and discipline.
Don’t get mad or too fussed over the crazy shit they pull. They usually play TOO aggressive to the point where they forget to block some strings.
Some Yun players will dive in and throw jabs, just block the dive kick and block their attack strings. There is a small time frame afterward where the Yun player will either have the option to block or jab some more. So during this time your best bet is to sneak in some shorts and link it in with some EX legs
that seems to be working for me right now… I don’t know about you guys
but Chun-Li’s anti air options are pretty bad against Yun if all she is doing is staying on ground game
Extravagant, your points are duly noted, but you’re forgetting about Yun’s command throw. If you just block, you open up the possibility of getting command thrown into a combo. It’s worse because a smart Yun can mix it up and, I believe, even option select a sweep in case you try to backdash.
Characters leave small gaps in your block strings because they might be trying to fish for counter-hits.
And like SnakeAes said, blocking will inevitably end in you getting command thrown into a combo. You literally have to guess on defense, to get out of that pressure, akin to playing rocks, paper, scissors
Crap… then we can we do when they could possibly command grab, jump up? Escape jump roundhouse?
I know Gunslingermeeks just said “it’ll be guess” but that’s not safe enough for me…
I’m gonna get into the lab with some Yun players, record some matches and I’ll see what I can find
other stuff:
I don’t know if it was because this Yun player was bad, but I did many j.neutral rh and it seemed to hit him a lot during some jump ins, and his qcf punch move
If you use Kikouken, you can counter his normal or EX rolling shoulder move with c.mk. if he uses EX, you have to time it a bit more strict. His shoulder move is almost like Balrog’s charge punches. You can also throw him as he is getting in close, as long as his active hitboxes aren’t there yet. so you can grab him, throw in some jabs (not entirely safe though), or c.mk. there aren’t the best options, but they seem to be working for me at times when Yun players use that rolling move predictably (thinking that they’re invincible)
If you can sense that Yun is tryna do a dive in kick from a far distance, s.fierce or s.mk can do you handy wonders. up close though, you’re dead X(
Question: If you are throwing Kikoukens and he uses his rolling shoulder move, is it safe to dash back?
Chun can pretty much safely anti-air the twins dive kicks with ease… at a distance. Up close, your best option is to block or you can execute a LVL1 focus (least recommended in my opinion unless you have a good eye). Though I agree, sitting on the ground 24/7 isn’t going to work.
I’m not saying that this is a choice. This is forced upon you by Yun’s retarded blockstrings and ex-command throw. I’m all ears if you can find an option that you can reactively get you out of trouble once Yun is in.
After playing for a while I’m thinking that Chun may be one of the “ok” characters to deal with Yun (don’t have a lot of practice against Yang, so I can’t say anithing about him). Here are some things I’ve been doing:
-C.mk works great to avoid EX lunge punch on reaction, as long as I keep my eyes on what he’s doing I can do it every time. If you do it early enough you must be quick and punish with a throw or cl.HK xx ex legs. Usually the throw works even if you’re late on the punish cause they won’t expect their godlike move to whiff…another crazy thing about this character is that he almost has 0 recovery when he whiffs his lounge punches :
And being able to make that bullshit move a bit more risky almost takes away one of his strongest tools.
-After EX legs she can just hold u/f and if he quick recovers from the KD the timing is perfect to safe jump all of his reversals. If he doesn’t quick recover just jump straight jump again (this second jump requires a small pause). This thing might not work only if he delays the quick recover.
-Cross ups on wakeup are a waste of time (and momentum), 50% of the times you get sucked in front of him, and the other 50% he escapes.
-Wait on d/b charge: if he’s doing long blockstrings he’s gonna jump sooner or later to get his pressure back in action. Since his dive, unlike Rufus, has a minimum height to be executed and since a good Yun should always aim at your feet, with decent reacion you can always EX sbk him away with no risk to get your move stuffed (react to the dive, not just the jump).
-Kikosho is great at mid distance…if they just neutral jumped to bait something, they’ll get hit (requires good reaction though…so when I predict a jump I just buffer the first qcf)
-I still have a lot of problems with his dives up close, I need to try standing and crouching jabs, but I keep forgetting it. I also have a hard time keeping my meter for super, against good Yuns I barely manage to have more than 2 stocks :\
Of course what sucks is that I can’t really practice this matchup online if I don’t have an excellent connection with the other player. His divekicks become harder to AA, half the time when I try to AA with EX sbk I just end up blocking and losing my charge…his ex lounge punch becomes hard to block on reaction if you were walking forward and when I try to duck under it, again, I end up just blocking (unless I was completely expecting it and just waiting for the yellow flash).
I really don’t think players should be encouraged to rely on EX SBK. The goal here is to get as much damage on Yun as possible - rather than focus on a move as a quick “get off me” move. You’re also wasting meter on what would be better suited for Super or EX Legs.
It’s been discussed by a few of earlier this week, but St. MK, St. HK and St. FP are all effective moves that can punish divekicks. Cr. MP also works – all are spacing specific, but they do work.
Players should take note that Yun/Yang are generally going to go nuts on attack strings in the hopes that you’ll get frantic and attempt to mash (which is foolish, cuz you risk getting counter-hit and thus, losing more health).
YouHou can be punished by Super on block, btw…
Basically this match just comes down to patience and being conscious of your spacing options at all times.
