Yeah, i do managed to throw him, when he turned counter happy and after that, he starts to respect me when i walk up, so i can catch him with standing HK and other goodies, but if i throw him, that gives him the advantage. I have dash ultra, but man… those hadoukens have no recovery and it didn’t work at a distance. About the demon flip. When he uses it in a reset, it pretty much beats my SBK every time. Only standing medium kick seems to work, but only in rare ocasions, and then he can throw it after a flip if he smells it out. If i try to escape it, he just mash sweep. Maybe my positioning or my overal game plan against him is wrong in this match. I watched a couple of Chun vs Gouken matches on youtube but man, not one seemed to be as turtling as this guy. X)
i dont recommend u1 with gouken at all. His recovery is way too good
The basic idea I try to follow against gouken is get inside and react to him, dont just rush him down, dont jump no matter what, get inside his head and just FADC through his fireballs.
One thing I do is dash in to bait his counter move then hit him after its done(st.fierce, firecracker, bnb, st.rh, cr.rh etc). When he jumps back, usually he will land in a spot where you can sweep him (I forget if you have to dash forward to be in the right spot but its not hard to eyeball on the fly). Once youre in theres very little most goukens can do to get out.
You can also bait his ultra1 which is a free ultra for you. knock him down, focus attack next to him backdash on wake up on his way down use u2.
Also while hes turtling you really should consider building your super/ultra meter. Chuns super is probably the best in the game. Gouken has waaaay too many unsafe moves, and if he tries one you can super him and take off a lot of life.
[media=youtube]Ae9HyJQYC7M[/media]
^learn that it will own many many people and its a lot of fun to do on top of that.
EDIT: If he has u1 forget hazanshu over fireballs is possible
If you get a life lead and for some reason struggle up close, out turtle him and when theres like 3 or 4 seconds left use your ultra and run the clock out.
Im really just throwing ideas out, if you can show us a video im sure we can all give much better advice
Okay, thanks for the tips. I’ll try to get a video asap. Anyway… is Chun is able to walk under a point blank demon flip? I had this idea after the matches. So when i see him do a demon flip at close range, even after a reset, just walk forward or dash and then sweep him or something. And guess i should build meter in this match too for super. The ex legs bnbs tend to whiff on Gouken anyway. He has a funy hitbox for a boulky old man X) I use the c.Lk, c.Lp, c.Mk, Ex legs piano, and sometimes i only get two hits with the legs and i can’t juggle after that. Pretty anoying…
Gouken’s fireball is not too fast for U1. It’s slower than DeeJay’s. Dash ultra it.
Edit: Actually, I’m not sure what the little square boxes in his frame data means, but I do dash ultra it a lot.
Edit again: Scrolling up farther I see SnakeAes agrees with me. Nevermind.
From point blank, do you mean like, if he is already right in front of you but does the demon flip anyway?
If so, just dash back and sweep him, or walk up slowly during his recovery from the missed hit of the dash and throw him.
Jump-away roundhouse is safe to attack Gouken’s on wakeup, even IF they use Counter, because they will hit nothing.
Then, you can walk up and punish their Focus Attack Damage + Sweep damage
Mix it up with the jump-away roundhouses
Aside from that, pretend you are being aggressive and expect Counter’s like 60-70% of the time on their Wakeups, like how you would expect a SRK. If you can predict their Counters, throw the Gouken player. By doing this, do a pretend jump in and do nothing, like SnakeAes said.
If he is turtling like hell, then build some meter and use some FADC Kikoukens to get in close.
If you see him dashing back a lot on wakeup, then move forward towards him on wakeup and sweep him if you see him dash.
Whenever you see demon flip, you can dash back and sweep him.
If you also can feel demon flip coming instinctively, jump up into the air and use j.fierce and then link a Kikousho (Ultra 2) on him.
This. He really does recover slower than both Guile and Deejay so this shouldn’t be an issue with practice. Also, though Gouken players hardly ever miss their tatsu juggle, that’s an ultra punish. Even if the last kick misses (that’s the important kick that keeps them safe), you can quick recover and Ultra. Just start charging while you’re airborne.
Also any combo into HK Legs~MK Legs can be linked into Ultra 1. This isn’t limited to cr. FP xx HK Legs~MK Legs on Gouken since he’s one of the wider characters. You can also hit cl. HK xx HK Legs~MK Legs on him.
Aside from the Ultra talk, something interesting about Chun v Gouken is that Hasanshu, an overhead attack, has to be countered low while cr. HK, a low attack, has to be countered high. Keep that in mind when you do your close up mixup pressure because Gouken really only resorts to EX counter when he’s desperate (and obviously requires EX meter). Shizza said it best: empty jump hasanshu is pretty GDLK. Mix that up with grabs and stomps (stomps beat his counter as well) along with your normal BnB combos and you should be good to go.
One thing to keep in mind on defense is that Gouken’s offensive pressure is designed to be relatively safe vs normal moves. Almost all of his normals are plus or even on block and a counter hit set up. Up close you should be opting to block. You can try lvl 1 focus in between attack strings to shift the momentum, but for the most part just block until it’s okay to use EX SBK to get him off you.
Hm, lot’s of gold guys, i appricate it! What i figured out on the fly is that if he tries to EX or regular counter my pokes, when i do a crouching forward, i can ex hassanshu cancel it, and it will hit him almost every time. Sometimes it goes above him if you do it too meaty.
I never did a jump away roundhouse, 'couse i feared the counter. That was clearly a mistake. I tried that headstomp trick and it worked, but it seemed goofy and i got ex tatsued if i went for a grab after it. But i think that combined with a light hassanshu it can be a deadly tool. Guess it will beat the crouch tech attempts.
Does cr.MK xx EX Hazanshu really beat Gouken’s Counter because of EX Hazanshu’s invincibility? I’d always thought about it but never bothered trying.
While I’m on the topic of EX Hazanshu though, a little while back I was wondering if Hazanshu was a viable option to stop Blanka’s Ultra 2.
If your spacing is right, ANY Hazanshu can hit Blanka out of Ultra 2 when he starts it. That is, during Ultra Freeze, you start buffering Hazanshu and hit him with Chun’s toe - Chun wins and the Ultra is stopped. If Hazanshu misses, you will recover in time to block the second half of the Ultra, but trying to Hazanshu again won’t work if you didn’t hit him the first time. Something I managed to do with very little success was to EX Hazanshu from far away and then HK Hazanshu over Blanka to the other side, but I still had to block the second half of his Ultra so that’s probably not viable.
I’m guessing that EX Hazanshu whiff into Ultra doesn’t give you enough time to charge, huh?
I got to test it and it works. That’s pretty awesome.
St. MP xx EX Hasanshu also beats it. Pretty much any normal canceled into EX HSU will avoid the counter but if she’s too close, she’ll go over him instead of hitting. Could you imagine just how scary she would be if EX HSU tracked the opponent regardless of position? :looney:
But, if that’s the case, shouldn’t it also mean that any other character who has a move with startup invincibility can beat or avoid Gouken’s counter? EX Uppercuts come to mind.
Yep, but not many character can hit him after the cancel. Most ex shoryukens and same invincible BSes just completely whiffs on him. Sakura can maul him with his ex DP though. And a funny thing… you can teleport cancel normals too before the counter hit, but you will gain nothing from it. But still… it’s pretty funny to anoy a Gouken, who is mashing counter 
Oh, and make it armor breaker while you are at it!
You don’t have enough time to throw him. So of course he will have enough time to panic any attack.
What I suggest you do, is to walk over and sweep him or maybe walk forward and do a heavy hasanshu.
I have a friend who play viper amd he do Ex seismo in reaction to deal with gouken counter (cr mp xx ex seismo for example).
Like Mokisenpai said, you need a long invincible move because the counter is invincible too and has some “active” frames.
I remember cr mk xx super from chun li lose so a simple (not ex) dragon punch will too
About gouken fireball take a look at this thread
http://shoryuken.com/f253/opponents-properties-thread-257352/
His recovery is just after Juri.
Deejay recover slowly that Gouken
DeeJay recovers slower if you’re only looking at Recovery time.
DeeJay
Air Slasher : Startup 12 frames Recovery 27 frames = 12+27 = 39*
Air Slasher Ex : Startup 13 frames Recovery 39 frames* = 13+39 = 52*
Gouken
Gohadoken LP : Startup 17 frames Recovery 24 frames* = 17+24 = 41*
Gohadoken MP : Startup 17 frames Recovery 24 frames* = 17+24 = 41*
Gohadoken HP : Startup 17 frames Recovery 24 frames* = 17+24 = 41*
Gohadoken EX : Startup 17 frames Recovery 38 frames* = 17+38 = 55
But if you look at it, you have more TOTAL frames to read and react to Gouken’s fireball, which essentially means it is easier to Ultra 1 Gouken’s fireball.
PLUS, Gouken can hold charge on the fireball, giving you even more time to react.
Vega mainer here, looking for a decent/good Chun here to spar with. It’s regarded by some as one of Vega’s toughest matchups and i’d like to get some more matchup exp.
XBL GT: iDreamzzz oF 3
Also looking for some help in general, looking to improve my ground game/use of normals/blocking/teching and I think this matchup is the most intensive regarding those certain skills.
I’m in Texas, usually have a good connection with anybody in the states so yeah. Thanks guys
i dont know if this is the thread for match making, but hit me up
I would play you but I don’t have a 360.
Gotcha
Oh and fuck Chun Li
Gotcha
Oh and fuck Chun Li