cnul have a couple of matches in his chanel, there a bit old, but u can get some ideas…
in the other hand
why we cant use this against ryu?, i was testing safe jumps against him in vanilla (ya i know u “cant” do a safe jump to 3 reversal framers bs), the funny thing is that is u do the forward throw safe jump u either stuff - yes stuff - the srk or the srk whiff, so im asking this why we dont use it?, can anyone test it in ssf4? (i only can test/practice in vanilla, and i do know thats crappy… so dont bother by saying yo dog get the ssf4 and such, cuz i will… eventually :B), another “find” im messing with, if u sweep ryu point blank u can do a jump (just hold up forward) and it turns up being a very ambigous cross up, and safe to srk, so if anyone can test it be my guest
Dash forward into jumping lk doesn’t work on Ryu in Super, I know cos the Ryu I play ALWAYS punishes it, he can delay the input slightly and auto-correct the DP. If he uses the MP version it always hits
Just mix it up with J. RH and it’ll force him to guess reversal/delay. If he doen’t have the FADC to back up that shoryuken, then the risk/reward is in your favor.
Sweep the leg. Scissors is even on block so you both have the same chance of hitting each other after. You want to use your fast pokes to counter his and you want to use sweep to counter a potential second scissors kick right after the blocked one.
It’s so simple, but he’ll start to hate the knockdowns as it fucks up his pressure/scissors kick game. One sweep is usually better than whatever chip damage he gained up to that point. Take advantage of any focus tendencies that may follow. Sweep from the right range also takes out MK and HK. Those are faster moves than the sweep but they don’t have the same range. Plus making contact with a jab then sweep pretty much makes your sweep just as fast. Again, take advantage of any focus tendencies if necessary. Don’t sweep without a purpose.
From a closer range I opt to use just jabs intead. Properly used jabs can lock him down pretty good during a mixup game. Cr.lk and cr. mk are also good for foosties right outside of grab range.
This alone should be good for hurting his rushdown game and forcing him into a more defensive style if he’s smart (which is somewhat of a pain since his backward walkspeed is godlike). Usually when this happens, I opt not to stick out pokes as much unless I know they’re gonna make contact, so I don’t give him anything to counter. I also keep an eye on his meter so I’m ready for EX PS if need be. Also, don’t use fireballs too much outside of a blockstring once he gets meter.
use st. mp/hp to poke, if u jump do it outside of his f.hk range (if he tries to hit u sweep it), to AA him use st. fierce, cr.mp, st.mk and cr.hk(some sagats like to jump a lot dunno why) every time u sweep them go for a df.hk sagat have a hard time dealing with this, u either stuff the srk or the srk whiff, punish if he whiff and combo if the df.hk connects, if u throw them (forward throw) dash once, jump and use fierce mix ups, is safe against srk, and of course use u1, it shut down his fireball game (doh), doesnt matter if he dont do a fireball, the important thing is that he is not throwing fireballs, if he likes to do the kara TK bullshit u1 on reaction to the f.lk… that all i can remember for now :B
Hey guys! Just some tips against El Fuerte just in case anyone is having trouble with the luchador.
-If he does any move off of his run that goes into the air (splash or grab) you can c.forward and go under any of the mixups.
-Backdash is gdlk in this matchup, but don’t get to backdash happy, fuerte’s will just space their mixups better. Also, it isn’t such a bad thing to forward dash in this matchup.
-If he meaty slides you, it’s safe on block, on most of the time they go for the grab, tech accordingly. Now that I think about it you can probably hazanshu instead, but I haven’t tried it.
-s.forward and s.fierce are you’re go-to pokes in this matchup, just be wary about focus. If fuerte get’s a crumple and is decent he can rsf you and gbye 300 life.
-Sweep or super any blocked splashes.
-fthrow, dash forward, j.fierce x2 I’m pretty sure is a safe jump. I haven’t tried it on U1, but is safe against U2.
-If he picks U1 and activates it as an AA you can start charging your down charge and exsbk when you land to beat it.
-If he activates U2 you can either jump to avoid it, or if you can’t jump for some reason or forget to sometimes backdash works because we are considered airborne.
-When he has either ultra be wary of doing anything besides block on wakeup because elf’s love to cancel their dash to ultra.
-Pressure him when you get a knockdown. When he has meter Fuerte can do EXrun or EXguaclegs. Throw beats EXrun and you can punish EXguaclegs (his AA dp type move).
Personally I play this match one of two ways. Either super rushdown or super turtle. I prefer to rushdown during round 1, or when he has no meter, and when I get a good lead I just zone with kikoken and press s.forward and fierce. I feel turtling is a little less effective, but can be if you guess right. Once you guess right and you get a knockdown you can rush or continue to turtle. Oh and either ultra in this matchup, I find U2 a little better. U1 doesn’t always punish blocked splashes which is weird.
there’s this fuerte player who destroyed me a week ago. i got pushed back to the corner, then he did the back run stop to tortilla helicopter (the spinning air grab move) then followed it up with a light kick. I didn’t think it was possible but it was. When he did that, he reseted me in the air. as soon as i landed/recovered, he did another back run stop to jump back tortilla helicopter (he buffered the run after the light kick). he kept doing this… i got caught in the loop… and lost… i didn’t have meter… and i think i won’t have charge to do ex.sbk after the reset… it was nasty =(
anyone else had this done to them?
Aside from what was already mentioned,
Jump low tigers or Hazan-shu if you feel close enough/spaced right. For high tigers, you can c.hp to inch closer. Definitely use s.mp (your main poke), c.hp and c.hk as needed. U1 is the Ultra of choice here, U1 him Better yet, practice the dash Ultra 1 so he’ll be scared to do fireballs when you have Ultra. Only use Kikokens as necessary. As with Ryu, you will lose if you fight him in a straight up fireball war.
Overall, imo this match-up hasn’t changed much from Vanilla. Definitely be careful about all his kara-moves though, Chun’s small lifebar doesn’t like it.
ELF can space/time splashes, Fajita’s and slides so that they reliably beat backdashes. It’s not a good option against good ELFs. Currently what I’m trying to do is just crouch block with normal defenses unless they do a running jump (as in one of splash/fajita/Tortilla), and then just guess between focus and jump back airthrow. I haven’t fully tested this fully against tournament level Fuerte’s yet however.
I appreciate your effort in contributing, but I have to point out that some of this advice is bad.
-If he does any move off of his run that goes into the air (splash or grab) you can c.forward and go under any of the mixups.
– This is not true. It works (and only barely) against his crossup splash, but nothing else. -Backdash is gdlk in this matchup
– Could not be more wrong in my opinion. I try to dash as little as possible in the Fuerte matchup. Plus, backdashing on wakeup can be punished by his safe jump option select throw. It’ll catch you with airthrow if you backdash and he gets a free untech knockdown (bad), or he lands and does a ground throw which you have to tech or EX SBK. -If he picks U1 and activates it as an AA you can start charging your down charge and exsbk when you land to beat it.
– If he times it right, there are four frames when you land where you cannot do anything, including EX SBK. -If he activates U2 you can either jump to avoid it, or if you can’t jump for some reason or forget to sometimes backdash works because we are considered airborne.
– Depends on the distance. If he’s pointblank, his Ultra 2 has 3 frame startup so you might not leave the ground in time. -Pressure him when you get a knockdown. When he has meter Fuerte can do EXrun or EXguaclegs. Throw beats EXrun and you can punish EXguaclegs (his AA dp type move).
– There is an option select (not sure how many Fuerte’s can do it, but something to be aware of) that allows him to kara cancel his EX run into Ultra 2, or otherwise throw or tech throw. Also, his EX Guacamole has deceivingly good recovery, so it’s wiser to punish with something quick. Jab or short, but don’t sweep. Also, if he does the kara cancel properly, it doesn’t even waste meter.
Has anyone had any experience using HP Kikoken reversal as an option vs Scissor Kick pressure?
I bring it up because it would be a possible clean counter to his Cr. LK – no trades. Chun moves her legs back, which might move them far enough away to dodge his Cr. LK after blocking Scissor Kick.
I think it should also beat or trade with a naked Scissor Kick.
Pretty much. Keep in mind though that his lk scissors is 0 advantage on block (2 hit, up close and personal version), so if he sticks out a c. lk any normal you choose that’s slower than that will get beat. You could still get beat to the punch even if you stick out a fast normal like cr. lp or cr. lk if you’re not used to the recovery period that both players go through after a blocked scissors kick. I think Bison players are naturally used to this recovery period since they do it so much, so more often than not they’ll be able to stick that cr. lk out on the first available frame. Is this the situation you’re dealing with?
This is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks. So there is no situation where Chun is at an advantage other than the spacing issue after the single hit blocked scissor kick?
I have experience of HP kikoken after rekka of Fei long or thunder knuckles mp from Viper.
Never try versus dictator because they use far hk or far mk, ex headstomp often (in the corner)
I notice that there is sometimes a gap between cr lk and lk scissor kick on block.
It’s not always a true blockstring at max range.
It happen to me several times that i block the cr lk and i get hit by the lk scissor kick.
Try to bait a max range cr lk and punish the scissor kick with ex sbk could be a good idea
Yeah, using a fireball to try and counter his pressure game will get you killed. If he expects it there are numerous ways he can destroy you for doing it.
In this match, less is more. By that I mean be very patient and don’t just throw pokes to keep him out. If I’ve learned anything it’s that smarter bison players will just focus dash through them and throw you…yes his dash is quick enough for s.mp punishes. Unless you’re very good at buffering for a swedish firecracker, be a little more frugal with pokes in this match.
Trip…a lot. One bit of advice Big Marcus gave me, which helped immensely in this match is that her trip is very, very good at stuffing the startup of scissor kicks and PS (non-ex). When he’s got you in the corner, just hang tight and don’t press buttons to try and counter, you’ll eat one of his fantastic pokes, if not another SK combo. Taking chip damage >>>> potential damage he can do.
Wait until he pushes himself out of range with cr.lk, the maximum will be about 3 reps of SK before he’s out of range. So just wait, and tech throw attempts. Once he’s pushed himself out, you’ve at least got options. I’ve found that waiting for him to move a little and tripping is a great way to scare him into trying other things, you can even focus dash > throw his s.hk if he’s caught off guard.
It’s a hard match, but this one in particular is about patience, don’t get overzealous and start trying to counter his cr.lk > SK pressure with your faster pokes. You’ll lose every time.
