I’m pretty sure dudley can avoid that throw, dash up, target combo safe jump setup if he do the counter move right before you land your target combo.
If i look into the hitboxes data video, here what i you can see.
The “recovery” from a cancel is always the same no matter which moves and versions she cancel.
Seismo lp, mp, hp, ex and TK lp, mp, hp and Ex
This “recovery” = 6 frames
That means when the cancel start, she can block/do a move after 7 frames.
Now the big question is when can she start a cancel.
TK lp : Cancel start at frame 8 after the begining of the move (total = 13 frames)
Tk mp : Cancel start at frame 8 after the begining of the move (total = 13 frames)
Tk hp : Cancel start at frame 5 after the beginning of the move (total = 10 frames)
TK Ex : not in the hitboxes data
Seismo lp : cancel start at frame 9 (total = 14)
Seismo mp : cancel start at frame 10 (total = 15)
Seismo hp : cancel start at frame 10 (total = 15)
Seismo Ex : cancel start at frame 8 ( total = 13)
There are some unknows.
1 - I don’t know if it’s possible to start the cancel earlier.
2 - I’m not 100 % sure about the recovery. Seems like it can be lower.
What i’m sure is it don’t overtake 6 frames but i think it’s only 3 frames
Someone has the japanese guide ^^;; ?
The video if someone want to look
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service (it’s only for seismo feint)
An exemple
Deviljin vs Lud
[media=youtube]6n5RHESDzgk#t=2m0s[/media] at 2m 0s
Can someone be a super angel and be nice enough to test on other characters chun’s safe jump against fei that one awesome guy pointed out (the forward throw then wait a couple of seconds then do a meaty j.hk) controller is broken atm =(… (gonna buy another one soon). I feel like it has some potential to safejump some characters… maybe sakura… i hate her cr.hp… though it’s awesome when you’re the one playing her. Please please please…
That was me by the way, and this safe jump works against any character that has a reversal with a startup of 4 frames or more. Obviously, the longer the startup, the bigger the leniency of the safe jump. I have tested it against Sagat’s Tiger uppercut (4 startup frames) and it works, though the success rate is much lower. Remember that this safejump only applies on wakeup. I can’t imagine Sakura doing a cr.hp on wakeup that will beat anything you throw at her unless you are completely off your timing.
Dhalsim ain’t that hard if a matchup.
First of all, use ultra 1. Why!
Because dhalsim players tend to pkay fireball wars
Hosenka ia very handy for this
So, most dhalsim players will knock you down and then try to pressure you with a yoga fire on your wakeup
If you got that ultra bar, punish his yoga ire with hosenka
If he is far away, you always got dash ultra. It’s easy for me to punish dhalsim players with dash ultra
And playing defensive AND offensive is the trick to mix it up
Alright so pkay defensive by shooting h/m.kikouken. I prefer h.kikouken since she recovers faster, right?
Now, if the dhalsim player teleports behind you, you must press fierce like 1/4th ifna second after. Chun’s pokes when he teleports of dangerous. You can even JAB him.
Also, do NOT forget to dash a lot.
It’s fast, it moves you around, and can confuse dualism
I’ve gotten mixupa on dhalsims where jump a lot an I baited one of their AA, and I spanned
The dash fwd to get in close and manage to sweep his ass
If you EVER get a dhalsim player on the ground in front of you, mix up the tricks you can do
Once dhalsim is on the ground you have these options:
Neutral j.rh ----> s.close rh ----> l.hazanshu
(this will most likely hit him btw)
If at least your hazanshu hits him, Jab him ONCE and walk fwd then GRAB him.
So he’s knocked down again, right?
Do the df.rh move on him…
RIGHT WHEN THE KICK HITS HIM, whether you block or not, do a JUMP AWAY DIAGNOL j.rh
Why? Because after df.rh brings you right in front of dhalsim and most dhalsims will try to grab you after that. So, do a jump away j.rh because it is so fast he will not catchx you and get kicked in te face.
After that mixup, he’d be damaged as Fuck, and he’ll probably be impatient and pissed and wanna get you back by chasing you down. From there you can mind games him !
Ok, so what you just posted is pretty much a guide to beating a dhalsim who sucks. Good players block hazanshu’s, and break throws. Other players have the same ability to react and adapt that you do. Why would anyone who KNOWS that U1 will hit their fireballs, throw a fireball?
Dashing around a lot will not confuse anyone, etc, etc. Lurk more and understand what constitutes actual matchup info & tips.
Anyway, I’m having a lot of trouble with Guile. So much so that I’ve been going to Viper to try and counterpick him, but even that isn’t very solid. I really just don’t understand how the matchup works. Either I try and keep it at full screen and match fireballs, which is a losing battle in the end, since he builds meter so much faster, and can use it better at that range, or I try and play it at s.HK range and try and use that & s.mp to stuff fireballs and just generally play footsies. Problem with the midrange footsies is that if I get blown up by stand fierce or lose the life lead, I don’t really have any pressure for him.
I understand that once he’s knocked down he’s pretty much free, but even getting him to a range where I can cross up is hard.
Yeah pretty much. This is the problem with the forums. You get people who talk about match ups on a really low level, or what they’ve done online. 
LOL… Harsh but fair…
This!!!
I hadn’t been finding this match up as bad as people said until played a mate I haven’t played for a long time, I wasn’t aware how easy Guile can shut Chun down. I would ask for advice but I’ve read all the stuff here and even contributed to the Guile stuff before and honestly the Guile I fought held his ground and was able out poke me for the most part, also he basically safe off EVERYTHING a decent Guile will ever use.
I struggled to get in, was basically unable to get round him… Man it was painful
On the one hand, I want to encourage participation, but on the other hand posts with bad match-up information are misleading and cause clutter.
Ah, the endless SRK dilemma… Sigh.
Regarding the Guile matchup, I see it fundamentally as a battle of who can put their opponent into the corner and keep them there longer. If Guile puts Chun in the corner she has almost no options against his very safe game from about half-screen.
On the other hand, if Chun gets Guile into the corner, he also runs out of options. I try to apply some quick offensive pressure whenever he uses a special because he has broken his charge, and keep it up until I think he has charge again. I prefer U1 in this matchup because if he gets predictable with Sonic Boom you can punish even LP Sonic Boom on prediction.
Also be aware that if you block his overhead, you can Reversal Super. Also, if you empty jump and he mistimes cr.HP as an anti-air and you block it, it leaves him at -9 which is enough time to land U1 against him.
Knee Bazooka is punishable by Super even on hit.
EDIT: I just checked the frame data and Knee Bazooka is -8 on block, which means you can actually Reversal Ultra it if you block it. Someone check this though, because I’m not sure if Guile can space it to make it safe, or if it is always -8.
Everything that’s punishable and moves forward with several active frames can be made safe pretty much.
Actually, it’s worked quite well on some good Dhalsim players. A Dhalsim player will throw at least one Yoga Fire if you have revenge meter on Ultra 1. Why would they throw a Yoga Fire? They just do. Okay, even sometimes the most professional players throw a fireball so it can be countered with a dash ultra. You’re saying every smart player has a 100% of not throwing a fireball at all? Bottom line is, it works, you just have to set up the Dhalsim player to throw a Yoga Fire, or, predict it instinctively or with a “guess” since most you guys talk about “guesses” with this matchup.
On a side note, Guile is a really hard matchup. I’ve played some pretty crazy Guile’s online. Well, their B+/A rank says a lot but even though I don’t judge a player by their ranks, these guys play really well.
It all depends on your playing style with Chun though.
My play style is the rush him down and do lots of crossups to trick their flash kicks.
Also if you guys haven’t noticed, if you see him crouching, ready to hit you with a flash kick, I can well say it’s like 75% safe to jump in on him. Why?
If you jump in on him and you do a j.rh right before he does a flash kick, it’ll shut him down before the flash kick even comes out. However, if he does an EX flash kick, it’s usually a hit exchange.
I don’t know about his air throw, that shit is cheap and has ridiculous good range.
Through my experience I find it better to learn the Guile player’s pattern and predict when he’s gonna jump up and do an air throw. Once to learn it, you can counter him back with Chun’s air throw, because she jumps up faster and higher than Guile.
edit: Yeah I just tested the j.rh on flash kick. and wow, chun’s j.rh is amazing. it even stuffs out his EX flash kick!!! this is really, really useful guys!! try it yourself and you’ll see.
Just because they can beat you, doesn’t mean that they are good. No names, either.
Extravagant, you need to learn that sometimes it’s better to listen than to speak.
You should be listening not giving tips that will just hurt more than it helps.
This is a rather silly argument, you know?
Just because a Dhalsim player can beat me whether or not has nothing to do with anything.
Why are you getting so defensive?
We could go on for ages, saying:
Just because Dhalsim doesn’t shoot fireballs during your ultra meter, doesn’t mean they are good. (A Dhalsim player could be a shitty Dhalsim but know that strategy against Hosenka)
Bottom line I’m just saying many factors apply on hundreds or thousands types of different players. Sheesh, I didn’t mean to like, piss you off or anything.
All I was trying to say is, it works, and definitely not all the time, but you know sometimes it works. There is no absolute correct 100% way to play a character.
I’m not trying to give out tips that are THE ABSOLUTE 100% BEST AGAINST ALL PROS kind of advices.
Anyways, sorry if I seemed to "hurt you guys."
or if you guys think I’m "hurting myself"
whatever
I’m no pro, but um, I can a little.
edit: hey any of you guys play on PSN? I wanna play against some of you if you don’t mind
Wow. Just, wow. Really?
Not true. If a Dhalsim player knew you had U1 and did an unsafe Yoga Fire (in other words if they did a Yoga Fire at any time other than after an untechable knockdown), I would hesitate to say that they were good. Even so, what you said relies on them to make a move and you to punish it. At high level play (especially the type of play MagMan and Shizza and some of the other guys in this thread participate in), you can’t reasonably expect a Dhalsim to do an unsafe Yoga Fire when Chun has U1. You just cannot, and if you think otherwise you are downright foolish.
If Guile has down charge and you jump, why would he wait for you to stick something out, rather than just Flash Kicking you near the peak of your jump? That’s awful advice.
Guile would have to time the EX Flash Kick very poorly for it to get stuffed by Chun’s j.HK.
I am not trying to put you on blast here but you were the one insisting you gave good advice, so in the interest of not confusing newer players I’m trying to clarify for the sake of this thread.
None of us are saying that Hosenka against Dhalsim’s Yoga Fire doesn’t work. We’re not saying that. What we are saying is that you can’t rely on it in the clutch against a high-level Dhalsim player because unless the Dhalsim player does something REALLY stupid, it ain’t gonna happen.
My PSN is SnakeAes.
I just got back from a two-week trip during which I played literally zero Street Fighter though, so I may not be the best person to make an example out of you as I’m pretty rusty.
I’m always down for casuals, though.
The guile player that I play and the one that I have the most trouble with, isn’t just sitting on the ground waiting for an opportunity to do a flash kick. If he is charging down back and sitting in one position, he is downright going to lose this game pretty quickly, because he needs to control the space around him, and utilise his insanely good normals as anti-air options, namely, cr.fierce, and s.fierce. And I’ve tried backing him into a corner by progressively blocking booms, and varying my forward movement with focus dashes, with little success. Smart guiles will always follow behind a boom, and this makes things dangerous for chun, because all her options for avoiding the boom either get punished (jumping), focussed (hazanshu), or end with her in a guessing game if blocked. However, I have found a nifty little solution, by actually using focus backdash ultra 1. If you bait him into throwing out a backfist, a thrust kick, or even a focus, this will tag him. But even this, you can only use sparingly, as he’ll catch on to it, and just throw sonic booms all day when he sees your ultra stocked. You might think that this also opens up more opportunities to dash ultra him, but even doing it reactively will still result in him recovering and blocking after throwing out a boom. You can, however, execute it on anticipation, but I very rarely do this (unless I’m absolutely desperate) because if he doesn’t do one at all, you’re open to a huge punish.
To exemplify what I believe to be a matchup in Guile’s favour, I picked him against a very competitive Chun player, and I won the game purely by zoning, and not allowing the chun close at all. To be fair, the Chun played out of his skin, and for the most part, did a lot of things right. He just could not close the distance enough to put himself in the game. Anyway … am not saying that this matchup is impossible. It just requires a lot of patience, and plenty of hard work.
lets play now SnakeAes just for some casuals ^^
Backdash Ultra 1? I tried this way back in Vanilla but assumed it was impossible to execute. Do you do charge back, f, b, b, f KKK?
Whenever I’ve tried that in training it never works for me.
Can’t, I am at work.
Oh, how I wish I could play SF4 at work.
Backdash ultra is easy to do if you mean Hosenka, and its even easier to do if its a FA
SnakeAes can you play in a bit? I have to eat but after im down to play too
I only ever do it off a focus. I don’t think it’s possible without a focus to be honest. Just remember that if you’re holding back, and you activate a focus, pressing f, b makes you backdash. So really all you need to do is charge back, f, b, f KKK. It’s tricky because during the backdash, you may potentially lose the charge, so for insurance purposes, what I do is charge back, f, b, f, b, f KKK. Tapping KKK twice also helps. I know this sounds, and it’ll probably feel like mashing, but it comes out very consistently. I really only started doing this, so I haven’t jumped into the training room a great deal to actually get a proper feel to do this appropriately.