guile is such a little bitch. then again once you get a knockdown, chun’s mixup game is way better and he doesnt really have the tools to do anything about chun’s wakeup game.
No arguments here, but the biggest hurdle here is actually getting in and achieving that knockdown. Smart Guile players know that things quickly go downhill after a knockdown, and will not allow you much opportunity to close in on them.
Exactly, the problem stated is that Chun doesn’t have any reliable way of getting in to score that knockdown to begin with.
You can’t even try to trade his boom with c.hk because it will stuff you clean.
Guile sucks to approach, but you can deal with sb pretty well just by walking and blocking them. Once he gets near the corner, or starts trying to move forward in general, then it’s your turn to react to what he does. You can focus /outpoke most of his normals and you can react to his jumpins. Once you get the life lead, then you can mae it difficult for guile to take back the match.
I just had a 20 game set with a very good Guile player and suffice to say, I lost that set pretty comprehensively 5-15. Whilst I tried to advance by blocking booms, Guile’s improved normals in super makes it near impossible to even back him into the corner. And you will not outpoke Guile’s SBs. The sb’s recovery is so ridiculously fast, that he is able to throw them out at half screen safely without being punished by a hazanshu or a focus dash forward punish. If you are patient enough to build two super meters, you can hazanshu focus backdash on reaction and tag him if he goes for a focus, but this is such an expensive way to play the game, particularly on time and also her dependence on super meters. If anyone can shed some light on any ways to break this zoning, I’m all ears. This matchup just feels incredibly one sided at the moment.
Rose - Pick Ultra 2? That needs to be changed. U1 is the pick here without a doubt.
First of all, Chun’s EX legs combos won’t connect properly. So landing Kikosho is actually really difficult since EX legs will hardly even launch Rose for a Kikosho juggle. Df+lk x Kikosho is just not useful here either since Rose doesn’t have to jump-in in this match up. She will stay grounded with safe spirals and c.mp. Hosenka will also shut down her reflect since you can dash U1 fullscreen, and will actually make Rose think twice before absorbing/reflecting fireballs. Finally, if you have the reaction to U1 Rose’s c.mp x spiral/soulspark cancels, you will land a big damaging blow for free.
Totally agreed. Rose’s fireball game is a threat to Chun-Li. Chun definitely cannot win a fireball war vs Rose without Ultra I. Getting in on a turtle Rose can be as painful as getting in on Guile.
D/F LK is a good anti-air vs Rose because Rose’s jump MK tends to out-prioritize st. mk… But dash EX Legs juggle is enough damage for an anti-air in this case.
I usually look to whiff punish slide with sweep in this matchup. Rose is really hard to beat convincingly.
Yeah, well if Rose decides to jump then df+lk x ex legs juggle is just fine. But, if you’re stupid enough to actually pick U2 for this matchup, Rose just won’t jump. Ever. And without Hosenka, you will be in disadvantage without a doubt.
So, Rose section needs to be changed - U1, not U2.
to add to that (but I’m sure most of you guys already know this), but if u bait a Rose to reflect a Kikoken mid-range and u are sitting on charge, you can punish the reflect with U1 (or dash U1, depending on how far u far)
Yeah that’s what I said, and it’s basically the reason why you should pick U1. Shutting down the reflect will make the match up a lot easier.
oh, u ***did **say that already. =
Good shit to me for paying attention. =/
Couple notes vs Bison:
-
cMK beats his crossup
-
The original post says to use U2, but then says to U1 vs whiffed dev rev. I was on the fence about U1 vs Bison after seeing Nemo choose it. Then I tried it out and it worked beautifully. Nemo also used it to pop a blocked Bison U2. I guess it’s the pro-life Ultra of choice! Ha!
Taking some notes now on the findings in the thread. Updates coming shortly. Thanks for everyone who posted new things.
I’ll change the bison entry to better reflect that either ultra is pretty viable.
Pappiol, if you could clarify, are you saying Hosenka punishes in between the mp and the move?
Uh, what? I was referring to
Dash ultra devil’s reverse is already in the op.
Whoops. I thought we were talking about what thisguykillya said. hahahah.
You should also add to the fact that Soul Spiral is punishable on block with Super.
Careful, tho, cuz spaced HK Spiral it is possible to be +1 on block.
Brainless Ibuki vortex solution…
I haven’t seen anyone mention it, but it’s not really a 50/50 vs Chun because she can always focus dash the Kunai no matter which direction Ibuki lands. The only thing required is good wake-up focus timing.
Go into training mode and record Ibuki doing neckbreaker into meaty Kunai. Try to get as much frame advantage on hit as you can (Ibuki’s Cr. HP comes out in 9 frames so if you can combo that after meaty LP Kunai, you should be solid.)
When you’ve got that down, record Ibuki doing Neckbreaker > Meatly LP Kunai > LP > MP > HP Target Combo xx Neckbreaker.
Practice focusing Kunai and immediately dashing. If Ibuki crosses up, Chun Li will backdash to safety. If Ibuki does not cross up, Chun Li will forward dash, but she will be able to block any follow up after the Kunai.
In-match always guess cross-up, because that is the easiest for Ibuki to do. Sometimes Ibuki will mix in crossup LK, but you will be able to focus that safely as well. Ibuki’s non-crossup jump ins are VERY obvious because Ibuki’s forward jump travels so far. So if you mess up focus, at least you will block the “50/50” correctly.
Now, Ibuki has a give-and-take as far as frame advantage and safety are concerned with her vortex. The more frame advantage she gets, the less reversal safe the kunai was. If she goes for max frame advantage, she could have been hit by auto-corrected ex sbk. If she is a good girl and is playing safe from your reversal, focusing the kunai actually gives Chun advantage after forward dashing and she can punish Ibuki with cr. jab.
Another thing… I was playing an Ibuki who ALWAYS EX Kazegiri after I hit him with Hasanshu. I usually go for the cr. lk ex legs combo in hit, but I was missing it all the time for some reason… Anyway, I ended up baiting and punishing it, but if she is doing it near the corner, another solution is to walk back and LP Kikoken. If she does EX Kazegiri, she will fall on top of LP Kikoken, into an EX Legs + Ultra I juggle.
If you have the reactions to see a cancel ( c.mp x spiral/spark ) then yes. You need to be on your toes to do this, but it’s useful.
Of course, but that doesn’t have anything to do with Ultras, and which one you should pick. Super punishes Spiral in most cases, but a properly spaced Spiral can leave Rose at +1 (+2? not sure). Therefore no punish. But since it’s rare, Super is extremely useful.
So I went into training mode, and tested to see if cr.mp -> hk spiral could be made safe, because that’s what I want to be able to shut down with super, not naked spirals, and the answer was “technically”.
If the cr.mp was done at max range, and for some reason you decided to block the hk spiral standing, it becomes -1 (requires mk super), but if you’re being normal and blocking low, it’s -3 (I was able to punish with a non-reversal hk super.)
cr.mk -> hk spiral was safe (+0 or better) at max range though, although at that range, you can walk back after the cr.mk to make the spiral whiff.