Because Hwoarang is still a scrub in his eyes, the Baek thread

Current Fighting Games Tekken
1

Ok, lets kick this off right.

Baek Doo San:

Let’s start by saying this. Baek is not an easy character to learn. He is also an unsafe character to play as, as most stance based characters are. But Baek is one of the characters that will screw with your opponents mind and leave them second guessing punishes when played correctly ontop of the large amount of damage he outputs.

Strengths:

**Flamingo **(usualy notated as FLA): He stands on his right foot, left foot raised in the air. Baek has a plethora of moves that cancel into this stance. When used correctly, cancels into FLA will keep your opponent on the defensive and confused.

Delays: Baek has a number of moves that can also be delayed, many of which are in strings. Most of the delays do not lead into bound state or combos but are damage none the less.

Wall Carry and Wall Damage: He has a very LARGE range he can carry an opponent to a wall. That, coupled with very strong wall damage combos, can easily lead to half life combos while setting your opponent up in a very bad spot.

Mindgames: With the usage of FLA cancels and 50/50 mixups, I feel that Baek can create some of the best setups and mindfucks. It’s not uncommon for good Baek players to mentally paralyze an opponent for a round. [media=youtube]KyFBd520np8"[/media]

Weaknesses

Not Safe: Baek is NOT a safe character to play. Many moves, while blocked, leave him in punishing positions. Also FLA stance can not guard, like most stances, and leaves you wide open to launchers if your opponents reads it.

** Momentum Based:** What I mean by this is that he needs a few pokes to start up. Baek has issues with starting his mind games without some attacks to put the opponent on the defensive.

The Player: Kind of a “No shit” thing to say but for different reasons than execution and spacing issues. Baek’s strength lies in the ability of the player to keep the opponent in a situation of guessing. If you end up going 1,2,3~FLA,2+3 (Two jabs into flamingo cancel into a VERY fast throw for those not knowing the terms yet) twice in a row, your opponent will get wide and launch you. Like all good mixup characters , you need to constantly keep your opponent guessing.

Ok, this section kinda sucks right now. I do not have access to a T6 machine currently but I have some T6 experience when we did have a machine in the area I do plan on updating this section a bit more when I get more information from other Baek players and when the game actually comes out. Until then, I’ll do my best with the thread.

2

BR changes, incase anyone cared about things from DR. Credits to Desiprince11 on Tekken Zaibatsu.

LATEST NEWS (LAST UPDATED: 6/5/09)

  • Baek has two item moves:

Refined Vest (Credited to fh4life) - regains health (1+2+4)

Sledgehammer (b+1+3+4)

NEW MOVES

  • b+[3]_FLA f,b+4 and repeat. (FLA)
    DOES NOT WORK IN THE LATEST PATCH FOR JAP/KOR/CONSOLE VERSION
    Quick FLA side step (to your right).(credicted to fh4life)

  • (Successful punch parry) 3 (m)
    Auto punch parry attack. Only works w/ b+1+2. If you hold B+1+2 into FLA, 3 does NOT come out. (credited to eeRee) The timing for “3” is also quite strict.

  • d/f+1,3_ws+1,3 (m,h~FLA) - i13
    goes into FLA on both block and hit. Linear. Duckable if first hit is blocked. Can be done during FLA. Not delayable (credited to toyamaK52)

  • f+2>1>4 (m,h,l) - i15, b -15
    notable frame advantage on hit. Can delay at every hit.

  • u/b+4 (m) - i?, b -13
    high crush mid. Similar hit stun animation as Bryan’s d/b+2. Linear.

  • ss+3 (L)
    ground-hitting low. Nothing special except + frame on CH.

  • ws+2,1 (m,m) - i15, b-12
    B! Jab punishable on block, NC. Hit-confirmable. Stable d/b+4 combo follow-up. If the first punch is blocked, it does not bound even if the second hit is CH. Short ranged but can be done from CD.

  • d+1>4 (m,m) - i14
    The starting punch is of the old ss+1, second hit is delayable. NCC and hit-confirmable, though is NOT guaranteed on maximum delay. (Credited to toyamaK52) Can be done during FLA

REVIVED MOVES

f+4 series: - i19

  • f+4,3 (m,m)
  • f+4,4 (m,L)
  • f+4,3~f_b (m,FLA)

f+4 bounds.

FLA f+4 - i18

(T6 f+4_FLA f+4 is now done f+3+4_FLA f+3+4)

PROPERTY CHANGES

[+] 1,2 longer range
[+] Enhanced FLA ss ability
[+] u/f+2 can now be used in FLA
[+] FLA f+4 tracks 360
[+] ss+3+4 is now -14 instead of -16
[+] d+4,3,3 on CH has the same + frame property as d/f+4,4 on CH.
[+] (d+4,3,3),3 on CH now causes DS, like other string enders.
[+] (d+4,4),CH 4 grounds opponent (SLD)
[+] f,f+4 SLD on CH
[+] u/f+2 SLD on CH
[+/] T6 f+4/FLA f+4 is now f+3+4/FLA f+3+4
[+/] SS+1 is now d+1, making low jab = d/b+1
[] d+3,3 no longer NC. However, the second hit is still unparriable.

PUNISHERS (From Inatekken)
i10

  • 1,1 - (h,h) 7,5, h+9
  • 1,2 - (h,h) 7,9, h+6
  • 2,2 - (h,h) 7,18, h-2
    i11
  • 4,3 - (h,h) 15,12, h?
    i12
  • d/f+4 - (m) 15 h+7
    i13
  • d/f+1,3 - (m,h) 10,14, h+7
    i14
  • 1+2,4 - (m,m) 17,12, SLD
    i15
  • d/f+2 - (m) 12, JG
    i16
  • b+4 - (m) 15, JG(fdht)
    i18
  • d/b+2 - (m) 15, JG(B)
    i19
  • cd+3 - (m) 25, JG(Class 1)
    i20
  • u/f+4 - (m) 18, JG
    i28
  • u+4,3 - (h,h) 10,20, JG

It’s late so Ill prolly color code later.

3

Credit to NoodleHead on TekkenZaibatsu.com

Special Notes:
-u/f~ buffer glitch is removed, making u/f~3+4 same as 3+4.
-T6 has 2-frame window for commend buffers, thus making juggles a bit easier to perform.
-The current juggles listed are from the youtube T6 match vids.
-Post 3+4 FLA timing was made easy in T6
-db2 in juggles have a float property similar to bryan’s db2.

B! moves:

  • Fla B+3
  • u/f+3,4,3
  • b+1_FLA b+1

W! juggles

  • 1,2,3,3,3,d+4
  • 1,2,3,3,(4),4,4_d+2
  • (BT) 4,4 d+2
  • d/f+3+4 NEW!
  • 4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! NEW!

Natural Combo (NC)
1,1
1,2
2,2
f+2,1
1+2,4
d+3,3
d/b+3,3
u/f+3,4,3
ws+3,4,4
cd_ws+4,4

Natural Combo on Counter (NCC)
(f+2),1,2
d+4,3,3
d/f+4,4
4>4 (should never use it but juggle instead.)

Juggles

d/b+2: NEW!
-d/b+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B!
-d/b+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA d/b+3
-db+3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B!, f~f db+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-db+3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! CD~WS+4,4,4 [Bigs] (Toothy)

FLA u/f+3: NEW!
-2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4
-2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1,2,(W!)3,3,(4),4,4
-4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f~f db+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 3+4~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! db+3,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA db+2 (Toothy)
-2,3 FLA 3+4~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f~f db+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3, B! CD~WS+4,4,4 (Toothy)
-4, 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~db+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)

ss+3+4: NEW!
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3 B!
-4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 3+4~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! db+3,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA db+2 (Toothy)
-2,3 FLA 3+4~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3, B! CD~WS+4,4,4 (Toothy)
-4, 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)

CH b+1 NEW! (escapable stun)
-d/f+1 T5/DR juggles
-d/b+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4

CH f,f+3
-db+3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B!, f~f db+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-db+3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! CD~WS+4,4,4 [Bigs] (Toothy)

d/f+2 (d/f+2 does not launch crouchers)
-3+4~f FLA b+1 B! d/b+3,3~f 2,3
-4 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3 B!
-4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 3+4~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! db+3,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA db+2 (Toothy)
-2,3 FLA 3+4~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3, B! CD~WS+4,4,4 (Toothy)
-4, 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)

u/f+4
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA d/b+2
-3+4~f FLA b+1 B! d/b+3,3~f 2,3
-4 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3
-4,3,3~f FLA db+3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 3+4~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-4,3,3~f FLA b+3 B! db+3,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA db+2 (Toothy)
-2,3 FLA 3+4~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3, B! CD~WS+4,4,4 (Toothy)
-4, 3+4~f FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4 (Toothy)

CD+3:
-u/f+3,4,3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f 2,3 FLA 1+2,4
-u/f+3,4,3 B! f,f~d/b+3,3~f 1,2,3~f FLA 1+2,4_d/f+3+4
-u/f+2 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 4,3,3~f FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! FLA 1+2,4_d/f+3+4 (Toothy)

b+4:
-all DR juggles.
-2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! CD~WS+4,4,3~f FLA
-1,2,3~f FLA 1,2,3~f FLA b+3 B! d/f+3,4 (Toothy)

Low parry to d/f+1:
-2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4

CH d/f+3
-all DR juggles
-d/f+1 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4

CH 4
-all DR juggles
-3+4~f, 3+4~f, 2,3, FLA b+3.

d+2:
-all DR juggles

**d/b+4: **
-all DR juggles.

(d+3,3),3
-2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA 2,3 FLA b+3 B! d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4

Summary
-The commonly used T6 staple involves 3x 2,3 into FLA b+3, and end w/ d/b+3,3~f FLA 1+2,4. For the wall option, u can replace 1+2,4 w/ 1,2 into walls.

-Wall hit 1,2,3,3,4,4,4 again works when 1,2 hits before the wall, but the first 4 will miss the opponent.

-You can improve the okizeme situation w/ the staple juggle mentioned above by finishing it at 1+2. The position and the frame is about the same as the optimum okizeme situation in DR.

-For the low parry/CH d/f+3 into d/f+1 pop, u can get one less 2,3 and end w/ the same staple juggle. It’s possible to do 3x2,3, but to re-lift ur opponent, u will have to dash in d/b+3,3~f, and I have not seen any successful case post d/b+3,3~f juggles after lowparry _CH d/f+3 d/f+1 3x2,3 FLA b+3.

-B! now works against opponent from front and back in the latest version. I have not seen any B! on the off-axis opponent yet, but it doesn’t mean it wouldn’t happen.

-When opp is B!'d from behind (aka b+4 juggles), CD WS+4,4 will hit, and I am wondering the possibilities of using CD d+4,3,3 or even CD d+4,4,4 when opp is by the wall. However, there is no point of using d+4,4,4 on B!'d opp who is by the wall, since u get more damage w/ the currently available wall options.

That’s it for now, folks.

4

This won’t be in the console version ;_;

[media=youtube]6n8tlFo1ss4[/media]

5

Markman told me it was going to be. Ill test it when I get it. I hope it is.

6

Baek is a beast son

7

Baek’s good.

8

FLA concel is in console version with patch. Confirmed

9

Baek is a good character yeah he can be hard to use, but he’s easier than Hwoarang whose move list is even larger and you have four stances to worry about.

Actually Hwoarang used to be my main, but when I was preparing for a tournament I realized I had to drop him because I do that flamingo stance too much when I’m in middle of a combo which gets me hit in the face, with Baek that rarely happens.

10

shit no one plays baek on shoryuken… i might have to go to TZ… dam

11

I do but it is best to go to TZ.

12

Definitely agree that he’s much easier than Hwoarang (and he’s higher tier for sure in this game). Baek also has one of the more harder to read slow lows in d/b+4 imo. I always eat that for free

13

um, no. Baek is easy until the intermediate level. There is a nasty learning curve from intermediate to advanced level, and it’s extremely easy to tell a difference of an advanced Baeker from intermediate ones. :wink:

How many people here who think of Baek easier to use have incorporate FLA WD and super FLA ss in their games? If yes, I would like to see your match vid. :wonder: