Ironically I’d land that more consistantly than I would CJab CMP - It’s not all too useful in matches but I put it into a lot of training combo’s for practice and fancy stuff. Overhead Cancel L2 FA into forward dash CMK CMP Headbutt is pretty sore but, well, relatively useless.
I know I posted this elsewhere a long time ago but I’ll throw it in again in the event someone wants a visual reference of combos - There’s about 70 in there from CJab Headbutt to more advanced stuff as well as typical resets/overheads.
[media=youtube]C28YfIGvCPI"[/media]
Includes above mentioned CMK>CMP combo but I know I did more with that in another movie, can’t find it. They’re all listed in the description either way.
ah right good to know 
I cannot stress this enough. I too was having difficulty getting c.LPx2 -> c.LK -> HP Headbutt, I’d usually get everything to combo but the HP Headbutt. Once I slowed everything down, it’s been smooth sailing.
Had a casual friendly today - Opponent dashed into me so I threw out the CStanding Jabs to push away… Then on autopilot I went from said Standing Jabs into BnB Ultra (Silly I know, but as said, autopilot).
Nothing special and old news but… DAMN it looks so stupid, lol.
[media=youtube]OkAPHCKrKQk[/media]
Not sure if this is old of not but I was practicing on how to counter roses slide and Ive just seen that lp overhead beats it clean at close range. During the swing animation it seems like balrog has no hit box on his supporting foot while his other foot is up in the air.
Balrog brings his foot up when his fist is coming down - If the foot is up in the air surely his fist has hit the opponent or floor so by then it’d have stuffed the slide anyway if they didn’t collide with you before that? Not disbelieving you or anything but I get the feeling that if the slide wasn’t deep then maybe it’s not whiffing, just hasn’t reached you in time. I certainly never once got away with an Overhead on a Sliding Rose… Then again I never bothered using the Light Version ^^ Must try it out sometime but I have my doubts. Rog has no invincibility on Overhead (On the contrary, using Overhead is like screaming " HIIIT MEEEEE!!! ") and I don’t see any reason why a Rose would use a slide for anything other than close range, enough for it to comfortably hit - If they do and it whiffs/hits they’re usually going for throws so if you Overhead too late/on reaction you’ll likely just get thrown out of it too.
Roses foot appears to overlap rog’s supporting foot when you go for the overhead. The overhead at this point has not hit rose but the his other leg is off the gound and at the point it seems like there is not hit box on his supporting leg. If I dont do anything, I get hit by the slide. If I overhead on reaction to the slide…the slide whiffs. Ive only done this with lp overhead. I Should test it with other strengths :). I will set it up on vanilla and set up fraps since I have the PC version I can take a closer look and take some screens or do a video.
Edit: got a really good fraps of it…it has invincibility from the start up of the swing it seems lol
What you’re seeing has nothing to do with invincibility. Neither Rose’s slide nor Rog’s DSB have any invul frames. Rather, what you’re experiencing is an unfortunate effect of retarded hitboxes. Observe.
Yes I figured as much after watching the video 
[media=youtube]NHNV53gnvSA[/media]
Well then, nice one for pointing it out - I’ll remember that - I am reknowned for overheads but I’m also midlevel so I get away with it whereas a Pro v Pro scenario would not. There’s a few Roses still left on GFWL so I’ll break the habit of using Fierce OH with them ^^
In addition, had a 23 game set vs a Viper player 20mins ago. In one fight I got a bit gutsy after a knockdown and went from TAP (Distance Closer) right into Overhead in her face - Viper Player had input an EX Seismo (He caught my other meaty dash attempts, meaty throws and normals with it a few times on wakeup but I figured I’d give it a shot anyway) but the Overhead hit after the Invincibility and even though her fist hit the ground, she was hit just before it could launch Balrog - Counter Hit, too - Went right into Short>Headbutt>Ultra and win whereas any other Dash, Normal or Throw attempt would have eaten in.
Probably nothing new but may as well contribute to the Overhead discussion - Probably not all that useful but still. I’ve the match recorded so if people want to see what I mean I’ll gladly upload.
Overhead is such a bad tool at high level play which I found out yesterday against this ryu 
Tyrying to break out of the habit and start playing lame with high defending players
Well we all know that, hence I said it’s fun at midlevel where you can get away with it. 2-25 people I face know how to block it and I get about 10 perfects a week just mashing out meaty overheads on waking opponents, some even Shoto’s who could just mash out an SRK but don’t seem to want to out of fear of my gimmicky TAP>EX Headbutt when I know I’m close to getting them dizzy.
I wouldn’t last 30 seconds against a proper player but hey, I won’t complain, enjoying the mediocrity 
Do u guys usually end upper loops in sweep or headbutt? I find that if u only use 1 upper a hb is okay, but other than that the dmg gets scaled so much that they are almost equal in dmg. Untechable knockdown is prerty important i guess.
yode
I don’t end upper loops with either of those, and I don’t find knockdowns with Rog terribly important since he has no significant high/low/mid or left/right mixups to worry about. He’s very straight forward. When you end a combo with a knockdown all you’re really doing is giving your opp some time to breathe and reassess the situation.
In general, when I have my opp in an upper loop I like to keep the pressure on. As such I usually end them with a rh upper. It does does slightly less damage than a fierce hb (20) but the same amount of stun. Plus it only leaves you at -1 and keeps you really close to your opp so you can immediately continue the pressure in one form or another; tick throw, frame trap, jab chain, reversal bait, etc.
My personal preference is apparently in the minority though. Most Rogs I see are all about headbutts and jab chains into sweeps. Ultimately it comes down to whatever you yourself are comfortable with.
If you used MK Upper, you’d be +1. Less stun/damage, more frame advantage to continue the pressure/set up a frame trap.
^ this and xaaz’s last post are discussion worthy unlike everything else in this thread…
I will definitely be trying these options in upcoming tournaments and let you guys know how it works out or me against top level players on the EC
I’ve been searching high and low to discover things with Balrog that are ignored - even such a linear character must have a few things overlooked.
I came up with the optimum punish for Abel’s Rolls. It’s all about understanding how it works.
For ALL versions, he is vunerablr for 1 frame at the end to hits. This is why Roll EX TT hits a frustrating number of times. That c.lp has to be well timed with only two active frames.
What IS more effective is using st.hp (cs.hp most likely). Cs.hp has 5 active frames to catch that 1 vulnerable frame. Hit it meaty enough into the Roll and combo st.lp into EX Upper, Ultra (brave), sweep. I’ve not fully tested it, but it appears EX TT after the cs.hp hits whiffs if your st.lp is mistimed. It’s a strong punish. I’m also finding st.hp works effectively as a keep out tool - mixed with st.lp to bait jumps, it’s another tool to think about.
I realise you could just throw, but let’s maximise damage here eh? :p.
Most people don’t understand moves properly, and I’ve yet to meat an Abel who knew that’s how their own Roll worked. I found this out and like to think it can help in what is now reportedly a 6-4 to Abel.
Maybe this should be in the match up thread, but it is technically a combo :p.
Dafro
I appreciate the suggestion, but I’m already aware of the frame data and still prefer using rh upper to end ex upper loops in 32 of the 35 matchups, though that number drops based on my opps meter situation vs certain chars. My reasons are as follows.
- STUN
When I commit to upper loops my goal is to accumulate stun. Under the heaviest combo scaling that 50 stun difference between rh and fwd upper is only 5, but that is 5 I wouldn’t otherwise have done. It may seem trivial to some, but if I’m building stun I want to get the most that I can.
- OS TECH
In the vast majority of matchups and situations, going from -1 to +1 is not significant for Rog. Obvious exceptions aside (for example, vs Gief), Rog is not at a significant disadvantage when he is in his opps face and at -1. When Rog is coming off a combo and is in close proximity most people will be looking for a tick throw because that’s one of the things he’s really good. As such, the normal reaction in that situation is an os tech.
As you know, if you do an os tech and aren’t being thrown then a low short comes out. The thing about that is, of all the characters in the game only six have low shorts that are as fast as Rogs low jab. So, even at -1 after a rh upper, if you follow it up with jab pressure (into whatever), and are met with the most common response (os tech), you are going to win or trade in 29 of 35 matchups (83%). After which you are in prime position to either combo if you won, or reapply pressure / reassess the situation if you traded. Favorable for Rog.
- 3 FRAME LOW JAB
Only 12 characters have 3 frame low jabs. A vast increase from the six that have 3 frame low shorts, but still, 12 of 35 is not a lot (34%). If for whatever reason your opp decides just to mash low jab after Rogs rh upper and Rog meets it with his own low jab then Rog is going to win or trade in 23 of the 35 matchups (66%), at which point the same applies during the os tech above. Combo or reapply/reassess. Also, once a player has reached a certain level of skill and understands the matchup with Rog to a certain degree we find that responding to a non-knockdown combo from him with naked low jabs is a rarity. Favorable for Rog.
- TRACKING AND RISK
Rog’s dash punches have a property called tracking. This means that their startup is variable depending on how close he is to his opp. For example, a jab straight goes active in 4 frames at point black but takes 13 frames to go active at max range. Because of this it is practically impossible for the opposing player to determine which version of a dash punch is being used when he is close (excluding ex’s). As you already mentioned, fwd upper is +1, whereas rh upper is -1, but the person you’re playing has no way of knowing which one you used at the end of the combo. This means they have to guess at what might be safe and what might not be. As such, a knowledgeable player will usually err on the side of caution, that is to say, going for an os tech instead of a low jab or reversal in most situations. Favorable for Rog.
That’s basically why I’m comfortable with a -1 upper to end my upper loops as opposed to a +1 upper in the vast majority of situations. Like I said earlier though, there are obvious exceptions. If I’m fighting an Abel that is going batshit crazy with ex tt’s when I’m close or a Ryu that just decides to fuck everything and reversal shoryu during every possible opportunity, I might decide to go with a different ender, but those types of situations are in the minority once a certain level of skill between players is reached.
But hey, to each their own. I’ve always said I’m not the be-all end-all authority on Balrog gospel. Who the hell cares what I think.
Just listen to your heart and everything will work out.
Xaaz, your posts are always informative.
I care!