You’re probably right about the risk/reward thing. Though DJ does have things that combo after the crouching strong like crouching forward. (TBH I suspect that max-range crouching forward is a better choice if you’re going to try to do the meaty thing since it will set up a safe jump opportunity.)
Are there any Deejay players online? This thread is kind of dead =/
Are we out of solid DeeJay players now? I haven’t played any good ones in months.
You’re forgetting me ;). Nah I kid but I’m trying to level up.
I’d like to think I’m okay with DJ. Somehow his easy MU’s are harder than his hard MU’s for me lol. Honda and Fei in particular usually just don’t go so well. With Honda it’s getting grabbed to death after blocking or getting hit with a buttslam. With Fei it’s failing to stop CW (a lot of the time I end up blocking at the last second while trying to upkick).
Mostly I just bust him out in ranked when I notice it’s a classic room or in a player match once in a while. Any tips on how to deal with those MU’s?
I’m confident bringing my DJ to any tourney but I’m focusing on sagat only until after evo. count fuddulous and Bruce Askew who says taught fudd don’t play hdr anymore much if at all so afro is the only one left and I think he uses boxer exclusively now.
Honda is easy. Jumping jab will help you out A LOT! Jump back jab at round start = Honda’s death. Make sure you throw max outs at far distances and only throw close ones when you KNOW that they wont do anything. If Honda is getting too close double tap Cr. jab, and if he’s close enough for a throw… MASH THAT CR. STRONG. Obviously you know what to do if he jumps. Also I’d count down when you’re close to Honda because after just a wittle bit it’s smart to jump back jab. (Don’t be too obvious about it, mix it up.)
When you’re cornered don’t be scared. Jump back jab will save you once or twice. Same with the whole mash Cr.jab/Mp thing.
Another thing, Cr. jab NE ochio (meaty) is an extremely safe tool Vs Dee Jay(super and counter throw is your options). Verses any actual good Honda they will do this as much as possible. That being said don’t get knocked down.
Also Honda can safe jump Deejay after HP and HK holds. (not too close to the corner though.) NEVER try to up kick unless you KNOW he is in the wrong position to safe jump. HE WILL MAKE YOU PAY! How to prevent this? After his safe jump Honda will most likely try throw, or Cr.lk hands that will lead to a ochio set up. What you have to do is block high and then low. If Cr.lk doesn’t come out and you see he’s about to throw/just sitting there waiting… JUMP BACK JAB!!! <— broken ass shit
Oh and MU? Only use this vs Honda after a cross up. (cross up Mk, cr jab [x1 or x2], cr.lk into MU.) This will do work on any scrub Honda =] Guaranteed!! (They’re always mashing)
About that cross up though. Only time it will be safe to cross up Honda is when you knock him down fairly close to you. The thing is if you’re playing the match extra niiiice you probably won’t be close enough for it at all.
Abuse cross up vs inexperienced Hondas though. That’s a given! =P
Vs. Fei I can only help you out to an extent. Jumping jab works greatly and just practice on up kicks + charge buffering. Don’t be afraid to throw max outs, but don’t over do it. AA St.Mp is good too.
Thanks for all the tips, especially about the safe jump bit and jump back jab. I kept trying to reversal upkicks after the HP/HK grabs and I see now that’s not a good idea. Also when I said MU I meant matchup.
That’s my lazy reading and comprehension skills at work.
Glad I could help!
Honda can actually grab you again after the safe jump (after the grab) before you can jump away. The safe jump roundhouse puts him just outside his throw range and he can take a half step and throw from his max range just as DJ is coming out of block stun. Pre-jump frames are throwable in SF2. DJ can’t reversal (lost his down charge when he blocked the j.roundhouse and Honda is outside DJ’s throw range) without super, his only choices are to take the hit from the j.HK and then sac-throw (and hope Honda doesn’t combo) or just keep mashing out of the throws until you get close to the corner (can’t safejump after grab anymore).
It does take really good timing to time the safe jump and the throw (have to throw from exactly max. range and the second he gets out of block stun, too early and you get a normal, too late and DJ can escape). But certain Honda players that like cheap, easy wins (especially against hard match-ups) go into practice mode and practice the timing a lot. 
Yeah, I"ve been caught in that loop before. Lately I’ve been wondering if it might be possible to get out of it by doing a reversal MGU on the safe jump. The theory being that you could “dodge” the safe jump with the 4-6 frames of high invulnerability and then make him block the MGU. Haven’t had a chance to test it yet, though.
I am not sure if i have said this before but why does not Deejay players more often use MGU against walldives on wakeup ?
Interesting idea, but I think Honda would be to far away after the safe jump for the MGU to touch him and he could still throw him out of the MGU from his max throw range. It might work, though, it might at least throw the Honda player off and make him hesitate before trying the throw, letting DJ out.
As far as MGU’ing Vega’s wall dive - does MGU hit behind DJ? Couldn’t Vega just cross him up with the wall dive? Or at least do it from a range where they could throw DJ out of the MGU?
Vega’s too good so why try to beat him?
Also jumping jab is still one of, if not the, best thing to do vs after safe jump. I doubt machine gun upper will work.
His head is vulnerable
Is there a list anywhere (or can someone create one) of all the safe setups Honda has? (I realize I should probably ask this in the Honda forum, but there seems to be some Honda discussion happening here.)
I main Dictator and it seems like for Honda there are lots of situations where I’m at a disadvantage:
- I block a buttstomp -> get thrown or keep getting buttstomped
- I get caught in bear grab -> they safe jump on me
- I jump back -> get headbutted
- I walk towards or stand still -> hand slap
- I jump in -> ochio
The only time I can seem to hit them is rapid st.jab against headbutts (which is just a reset), random jab psycho crusher, or st.kicks against hands but it’s not a good trade if it trades.
Any ideas?
Upkicks whiff.
Head is only hittable at the same that his mid body is an entire red box.
On startup only the feet is hittable.
It’s a better option than upkicks and forces Claw to only use walldives that pass directly above deejay and even then can whiff against the upper body invul it has on startup.
In Dic vs Honda you have to really read your opponent.
After BS, block and see what he is doing. Hands should come out instantly and it’s only really smart to headbutt after BS when Dic is in the corner. Jumping back is a good option if you know the Honda won’t do anything to stop you from doing so.
Verses safe jump: Honda can safe jump the crap out of Dic. A lot of Hondas tend to go for hands and throw after, as they should. In HDR it’s pretty easy to react to what Honda follows up with. After safejump block low. If you see him walk up jump back.
Also when in a certain position Honda can cross up RH after HP throw. It takes good practice to react to the cross up.
Don’t forget to abuse Dic’s buffs in HDR.They make the match pretty even. Devils reverse on wake up is one example. Not good if the Honda is crossing up though XD
After you get a knock down you should try TOD almost every time. I also recommend learning how to do the cross up. Most people just block regular against TOD, but if you learn how to cross up that’s a round for you.
A well timed jump back at round start can win you a round. If Honda headbutts hit that crap with a combo. It will dizzy…
A lot of Hondas can’t play this match for shit but still manage to win. That being said there is a lot of things that Honda has to beat Dic that no one knows about. Like I said before this match requires reading how the Honda plays.
Did you know Honda can counter Dic’s super with a well timed move(not a jumping attack)? Mk buttslam will kill that shit up close and it’s smart for Honda to Lp HB, or super at full screen. A LOT of people don’t know this so abuse it vs Hondas that don’t. Just don’t allow them to throw you after. Make it so you land in front and can MK after.
Honda can also HB/super slow moving PCs and HP PCs get you thrown. Only use Pc if you think a jump is coming or if you see him trying to counter Headstomps by jumping around.(It takes timing to hit him of course)
You greatest fear as a Dic player is a Honda that waits until the right moment. Headstomps will be hit with HB, and Devils reverses will be blocked. This will put the Honda in the right position for adding pressure and mix ups.
If you want to know something in specific message me or whatever. I feel bad talking about Dic + Honda in a Dee Jay thread. =P
MGU does have upper invincibility. It can trade with crossup Tatsu consistently (vs Ryu both characters get knocked down, vs Ken only Ken gets knocked down). Not many DJ players use it, I have only seen Fudd do this. I can see MGU trading with the Wall Dive if done as a reversal. IDK if it’ll work, but that’s a pretty good option if it can be done consistently, as Vega will be knocked down, but DJ won’t be knocked down (in HDR anyway).
Anybody know if reversal MGU can beat meaty fireballs?
Could be good vs safe jumps too, IDK.
In my experience meaty fireballs tend to beat reversal MGU, although sometimes it does work. I know the hitboxes are different depending on how fast you mash, so that may be why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.