Avengers... Assemble! Assist/Team thread!

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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[list]
[*]Dorm has a few perks. Assist wise I feel he is lacking for Cap and you run into all the issues I express not being satisfied…however Dorm’s hypers give him utility that I feel can help. If they start running away you simply get a stalking flare out their and get Cap back out. His beam also gives you punish tools at full screen. Another perk is simply that all of Cap’s bad match ups lose to Dorm. He’s not a perfect character for Cap, but I can see potential…it’s another case of can your 3rd pull the team together?

[*]Sent is good with Cap. Drones, safe DHC, TAC, etc… my concern is him just getting counter called from the air and Cap not really having an answer to save his ass. Sent himself is also not a great character, so I feel he is only warranted in shells like Mag/Sent because of how strong the pair are. Not a bad idea, but my personal preference labels him a giant target for getting sniped as I commit to my unsafe moves hoping the drones remain on screen.

[*]If you want to abuse alpha counter, there are much better options than Jill. Zero and Morrigan both have invincible alpha counters that lead into combos and are much better characters. My only reason for not using them is that Cap is not that great for them and I’d rather use someone like Dante or Doom with them. Vergil and Strider however can be good. Vergil’s rapidslash alpha counter self combos off a s.:l: for a surprise cross up and Strider can full screen punish and combo with his. Jill just doesn’t do anything for Cap.

[*]Cap needs meter, but he only needs to sit on one or two. His combos are meter positive if you are optimal (I average 0.4+ meter for 750-800k+ damage with my solo BnBs) and you’ll spend a lot of the match chipping away with pokes and shield slash, so you’re often not blowing meter for the hell of it. He doesn’t really have a way to abuse excess meter however, so Morrigan meter gain is kind of an unneeded perk. You are better off picking a beam or fast projectile and obtaining meter through pressure patterns and helping Caps neutral game issues. She can give him a safe DHC and some neat stuff…but sacrificing a good assist slot and the fact Cap doesn’t do much for Morrigan makes her a lackluster candidate. As said before I’d rather just do a Morrigan/dante or something and omit Cap.

While I like the Brady Games guide, some of the write up is dated so take it with a grain of salt. Hyper Charging Star is awesome, but it’s not invincible, it’s VERY unsafe, and some characters can straight up hit you out of it with longer range pokes (wolverine!).
[/list]

While I’m still struggling to find the perfect competitive Cap team, check out the team write up on the ultimate Cap thread, it’ll help you get some theory and my picks for good shells.

562

Thank for replying, but I like my current main team better which I like to call it team Adventure Time because to me, he almost resembles Finn when I think about it. If only if this game had a gold color version for Amaterasu. I know the team name sounds silly but I think this is a really good team because I think Cap and Ammy are best friends due to the synergy between these two.

Cap(charging star)/Ammy(cold star)/Shuma(mystic ray).

What does Cap benefit from Ammy?

Even though Cap doesn’t get anything from Cold Star, he does benefit from Vale of Mist with Power Slash that discourage opponent from attacking on incoming, and Okami THC.

I think the only thing he gets from opponent blocking Cold Star is that it allows Cap to get in a range where the cr.L will connect at max range, or Throw. If they try to tech the throw, I would do a back dash into cr.L.

Cold Star is easier to use when your opponent is in the corner because they lost half of their horizontal space where they can’t backdash. It also makes Charging Star M or H safe while opponent is in the corner. You also get a fuzzy guard setup.

You stated that the Cold Star is too short, but it has more range than Lighting Legs. The first hit reaches the farthest, then it becomes shorter at the 2nd hit. Damage scaling is the only flaw.

I think Cold Star covers Cap when he throwing out air shield slash because they will get hit by the ice if they try to dash and punish the shield slash. The only way they can hit ammy is if the character has a square jump and a good air normal, but I think that can be countered by Air Shield Slash M.

You can easily to get a combo after a THC when the Hyper Charging Star connects. If the THC hits the opponent at super jump height, the air combos won’t connect after OTG > S, so air H > air S or TAC will only connect at the end. The THC alone can easily kill an assist with full health that have a health similar to Dr.Strange

Even if Okami Shuffle won’t kill after DHCing from Hyper Charging Star, I can use Vale of Mist to set up a mixup with Ammy.

You also get a TAC infinite. I’ve only practiced the Side, and Down exchange version.

What does Ammy benefit from Cap?

On the other hand, Ammy can use Charging Star assist to extend combos, or use as an anti air that discourage opponent from attacking with aerial attacks. The Charging Star assist can help Ammy get a combo after instant overhead air L. It can also be used to help cover you while you are in the super jump height in case if they try to dash under.

Mystic Ray is awesome for both Cap and Ammy btw, I just need to learn RR and relearn Strange for my second team. I’m glad that MiniBoss has uploaded a guide for Strange.

563

Any big disadvantages of Cap/Vergil/Doom (Missiles) that I should know about?

564

It’s amazing against most teams, but a few teams can still deal with Cap and avoid/punish your assists. I would honestly counter pick beam and missiles based on match up. I still fear characters that can snipe your assists while staying out of Cap’s range. Basically if they have a great runaway movement character and some form of counter call or snipe, you can’t really pin them down…but if you do GG. I bodied Infirit in casuals with that team pretty hard last year, but lost horribly to zero(srk)/morri(srk)/doom(missile) and a point Hawkeye team (he kept full screen as he zoned cap and would snipe doom on call, i can’t remember what assist he was using to force Cap out on a block). You also have the issue of Doom anchor who pretty much suffers the same bad matchups as Cap (basically anyone that can win a zoning fights while out maneuvering you).

Honestly I may run that team this EVO if my point vergil isn’t performing well and I feel they aren’t running a counter to that team. It’s brutal in its lockdown pressure and nets easy TODs. If someone is keeping Cap out of range, try to get into Vergil safely and use him on point. You should use Cap (shield slash) because it’s just awesome with vergil teleport mixups and converts helm into a combo.

565

Btw Cap/Dante (jam) stuff…

Corner
[list][*]s.:h:+:a1:, qcb+:l:, j.:l:, slight delay, j.d+:h::s:, s.:l::m::h::s:, sjc.:m::m::h: dbj.:m: d+:h::s:, ground ender…[/list]

anti-advance guard insta-overhead set up, timing is tight for the j.:l:, but consistent.

Corner
[list][*]s.:h:+:a1:, qcb+:m:, forward jump, delay, j.:m::h:, qcf+:l: (land), s.:l::h: (sideswitches) :s:, sjc.(neutral) :m::m::h:, dbj.(forward) :m: d+:h::s: (land), dash, ground ender…[/list]

also an easy solo corner relaunch:
etc… :s: sjc.(forward), :m:, dbj. (back) :m::s: (land), qcf+:l:, etc…

566

Hello, I started playing cap because a friend asked me to try some things and I ended up loving the char lol.
I’m using the same team as my friend which is cap (can0t decide on an assist)/drones/akuma’s tatsu.

Anyways, I was messing around with the team and my highest damaging combo (without mashing the super) was 812k ( it can go up to 816k if two drones hit)… I know that if I get a jump in the damage is going to be higher !
The combo builds 1.2 bar I think… I always forget to start with 1 bar to test that while in training mode lol.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=3HrtG102m3s&feature=youtu.be

Is there a way to optimize this combo?.. There are a couple other videos on the channel if you want to check them too.

567

Not bad, have you ever tried using your second assist at the end up of the combo? At the fourth charging star, your other assist (tatsu) is available. It can be difficult to time the assist with charging star at the end, so you to wait for the opponent to drop a little bit lower. Your team reminds me of Knive’s team except that this team has Cap instead of Spencer in it.

Instead of optimizing the combo, you should try these resets

At the end of the combo, jab after you recovered from :l: charging star

**Air tech forward **

Go for the air throw. When you do an air throw, the opponent should get hit by one drone. Follow that up with j. :l: > dj.:l: > j :m: > j.d+ :h: > . :s: > land > st. :l: > st. :m: j. :s: > j. :m: > j. :m: > j. :h: > dj. :m: > j. d+:h: > j. :s: > wait so you fall to the ground faster so you have enough time to backdash and qcf. :l: > qcb. :l: 2x

If the air throw is escaped, throw a j. :m: shield slash as you fall down to prevent them from jumping away, then use your blockstring + other assist(tatsu) to crossup.

Another option is that instead of air grabbing, you can dash under for a crossup

**Neutral Tech **

Cancel into a carthwheel after a jab for a crossup, if they air tech backwards you can dash under for another crossup

568

Thanks for the feedback !
Yes, I tried to call tatsu inbetween the cs but it was very hard. I’ll keep in mind the reset options that you mentioned !
The rest of the videos are finally up if you want to check them ! (crappy internet here)

tatsu has been doing wonders as a get off me assist and other from this I wasn’t able to come up with a better conversion from a tatsu hitconfirm.

Now that you mention the reset potential of cap, I think it would be better to use drones with the reset in mind at the end of the combo instead of a combo extender.

Finally, which assist should I use with cap in this team ? although it is rare to have cap being an assist since I usually let him die lol, I guess ss is the safest option since it could help sentinel with the command grab mixups

569

No problem, It’s my pleasure to help a fellow Cap player :slight_smile:

Also keep in mind that character with an air dash, Flight mode, double jump or any aerial move that has an invincibility(Sentinel’s hard drive) can escape, so you need to find a reliable way to counter every attempt to escape.

When a moves have invincibility, it means that the move becomes unbeatable. Most or some invincibility don’t last long.

I’m not sure about the SS assist, but I think it sounds a pretty good idea. Maybe someone else can answer it.

570

Eh to be honest they’re all situational. I like shield slash assist, but none of them are “great” for Sentinel. You can get a reset in the corner if you end your Sent combo with otg + shield slash assist and then hold up forward and grab. In some situations you can get an extension with otg + shield slash assist, but I think the spacing is finnicky. I’m pretty sure you can get some command grab shenanigans with the assist. TBH there’s few situations where you’re going to be playing Sentinel and thinking “hmmm I should call Captain America assist.”

571

I think I found a better combo off of St. :h: + Jam Session + :m: Charging Star in the corner, which does 1,041,000 damage. Without Bolts and DHC, it does 786,000 damage

I’m too lazy to type out the combo because I’m very slow at typing, please excuse my poor quality(ipod 4)

~* I don’t understand how Jam Session help Cap btw*

572

Sick combo btw.

Jam session is Cap’s best air control assist and best help against the likes of Doom, Trish etc. Also helps him level up Frank.

573

Oooooh fanceh. I dig.

574

Thanks YawDan, I might start using Dante. Since I have consistently problems with bold cancel teleport after :h: :h: :h: :h:, I’ll just stick with a combo that doesn’t involve bold cancel teleport from now on.

Hi Im Nasty’s team would be super awesome if Super Skrull has a tracking meter smash assist. I really wish that Ammy has a Cold Star :l: (assist Y) , and Power Slash :h: (assist A). I’ve been day dreaming about this a few years ago.

One of the reasons why I think Power Slash :h: assist really helps out is that I think it will helps Cap cover his other assist. If a Wolverine or Nova dare try to hit one of his teammates(Bolts, Drones, Hidden Missiles etc), they will get by a Power Slash. If he tries to Dive Kick or punish Air Shield Slash, he gets hit by the Power Slash :h:. This also helps with crossups since it floats slowly.

When Ammy exits the screen while the Power Slash :h: stays on the screen so Cap can time the Cartwheel as the Power Slash :h: falls down without worrying about Ammy getting hit.

This assist will also help out Strange, because it will helps creates space, which allows him to throw out Eye of Agamoto or Daggers of Denak without worrying about getting hit.

575

I would really like to See Hi I’m nasty’s Magneto conversions. My whole issue with using magneto is I find his ability to to convert anything is very difficult, beyond throw pick up and roll+assist, s.:l:. Cap seems too slows and in such terrible recovery to really turn it into damage…but the counter call functionality is soooooooo useful for Cap’s issues. Why can’t we just get an IM beam attached to someone with a safe DHC T_T, seems all projectile assists always have one draw back or another.

I’m also curious what the synergy with Cap/Skrull is…I don’t see how that is in anyway better than Dante (jam) besides it being easier to convert…but not really changing what you can convert.

As for why Jam session helps Cap…

The kryptonite to Cap is simply run away zoners (and certain armor characters). I am obsessively searching for answers to this bad matchup. He can’t really do anything about them. His CS doesn’t reach far enough and is too slow at tip range to not get reacted to. Shield slash is horrible in projectile wars as it simply nullifies, but leaves Cap stuck in his animation, wide open or simply left unable to pursue as they reposition. Zero can pretty much stay in the air and negate all your options with buster. Even on the ground lvl 1 buster buster leaves Cap stuck in charging star with no hitbox (fuck you very much capcom), segenmu is very fast and can make attempts to hyper CS very unsafe as he blocks (this is why i preach the need for safe DHC), and his dashes can easily bait and punish most of his move set. Cap can’t get in on Zero if they play lame, while Zero still can kill you from full screen off a single hit.

Basically Cap is pretty much reliant on his assists at this point. So your options are: tag out a character with a better match up, have a fast horizontal assist to counter call and/or pin them to get in, and control vertical space so you can box them in the corner.

Most far reaching horizontals in one way or another have a flaw for Cap. You either get a character that’s a poor anchor with no safe DHC to validate him 2nd (Iron man, Task), limited conversions (hawkeye, magneto, Dante (ws), Doom, shuma), or characters with odd weaknesses that can be easily punished to negate in neutral (vergil, sent). Your only real options are 2 obscure characters Rocket and Arthur that you really have to love to want to use.

You still have the issue of what if they jump? Cap loses air to air hard and if he can’t trap them, he’s in a bad spot. So having a vertical assist is important as it allows you to box them in. Once boxed in Cap can keep them grounded and suddenly his horizontal assists become much better because conversions and coverage become much more viable. So your options are Shuma, Dante (jam), RR (log), Strider (vajra). I feel Dante is the best as he can be played second and anchor since his hypers are amazing for Cap, jam reaches full screen, it’s fast, and Dante makes great use of Cap’s SS assist. Shuma and RR are good…but Dante is ultimately a better character and while Strider is awesome there still safety and conversion issues. I feel Cap/Dante(jam) + a horizontal assist is going to be the new evolution of Cap except for the bold who use those other 3.

576

double post…

577

I love Cap/Shuma. 900k+ for 1 bar from raw tag combo? My kind of thing. Shame we can’t buy him anymore.

Ha I was advocating Cap/Jam a while ago. @intuitive2011 also schooled me in how you can convert off throws with jam by delaying the otg shield after you call jam session as its on the first few hits off it that has a high amount of pushback.

As for Cap+Mag, the optimal conversions off disruptor may vary according to the situation - at close range you can combo off :l: charging star + disruptor assist lol. Though off disruptor + cartwheel I manage to kill a full health character after the dhc (into spell of vishanti)- Felicia I think it was.

578

My bad- thought double posting was a trend… ^___^

579

I believe you can convert off of a forward throw with disruptor, but I never use it enough to figure out how.

580

Yeah you can. You can either air :m: to follow up, or standing :l: (or just do a modified version of the combo from his trial 8 or 9 after the x factor; I’ve forgotten which trial it is).