At around 4:21 in [media=youtube]a1bEF3hHnfA&feature=related"[/media], Chris Hu says something about a c.mk whiff option select shoryu. He said it in another video as well, but I can’t seem to find it right now. Any idea what he’s talking about?
c.mk whiff is a pretty simple OS. Though I don’t know why Chris Hu labelled that as an OS. Daigo definitely doesn’t have trouble dping after a whiffed c.mk. So he wouldn’t need special timing for that.
Maybe he was watching his hands and saw something that looked odd? Daigo could have just been mashing that dp out. He’s not above doing that.
Hu might also just be bullshitting. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Ah. I think the confusion came from the use of the term “option select.” I don’t consider that an option select as much as I see it as reacting to the situation.
Testing shows that an empty jump still has the 4 landing frames before an attack can come out. Though you can block right when you land. That wasn’t really clarified in the translation provided. Hope that it can help somebody.
I’ve been playing around with empty jump OS and this came up. I could’ve sworn that you could get the attack out sooner. Nope.
Theli : this latest discovery confuses me. I thought the empty jump throw/SRK was a valid mindgame (I empty jump, they naturlly go for a throw, I SRK into ultra). If it’s impossible to attack until frame 4 after the empty jump that totally nullifies this mindgame. You 100% certain on this?
Not 100%, but really damn close. I pretty much thought the same thing. That you could empty jump into srk to avoid possible counters. But if this was true, then you could empty jump against ryu after a sweep and srk the instant you hit the ground. And that srk would beat the grounded ryu’s reversal srk. But that appears to be impossible. Instead, if you do it right and block as well as srk OS…you will always end up blocking against ryu’s. And if you weren’t blocking, you get hit before your srk can ever start.
I used negative edge to test this. So I know that I wasn’t throwing out an attack in the air. And my best test case had behaviour exactly the same as blocking from landing frames 1-4, and starting the srk on frame 5. I used a lot of character’s specials to test with, and this is my best determination.
I don’t think you can beat a reversal srk, unless they used a LP SRK and you went with a HP.SRK/EX SRK, i think the properties of reversals will give it higher priority to beat out equal srks. Also if it wasn’t a reversal but normal SRK, whichever one SRK’s last should win out. You’d also have to time your srk from an empty jump to start at the 2nd/3rd landing frame, to beat out a reversal. A block/OS SRk wouldn’t work in this case i believe.
No, there is nothing special about a reversal srk that would make it intrinsically beat a regular srk.
If you managed to time an srk while standing next to a downed ryu opponent so that it starts just a frame or two after their reversal srk starts, you WILL win because your invincibility outlasts theirs. What works and doesn’t work with safe jumps depends solely on this timing and the relevant active and invincibility frames. The only property that’s gained by any moves as a reversal, that I am aware of, is armor break. Nothing else comes to mind.
I have tested this with a decent number of other characters and other moves. It’s not just the ryu reversal srk that informs my opinion on this. I have even tested with the regular grab. A 3 frame grab beats out the srk before it has a chance to start, because there is no jump-in attack to hit the character that’s essentially just standing there without invincibility. It doesn’t even have to have reversal timing.
It’s just impossible to make the srk start anywhere before frame 5 of landing, empty jump or no.
Yeah that was what i said before, just making sure you aren’t making any simple mistakes as the claim that all 4 landing frames on an empty jump can’t be attacked is a big thing, but makes sense as well. So i guess that quote of,
Is wrong about being able to attack the instant you land? I’ll muck around later to double check this as well.
I think it’s probably a mistranslation. You can absolutely block the instant you land. But specials just don’t follow that.
Unless… Well, there is an input buffer before landing. If you do a special move a few frames before you technically have touched ground, it will come out when you land. With a regular jump-in attack OS, that attack comes out 4 frames later. I believe I’ve verified with a lot of certainty that if this input buffer is used, and you block right after, it will have exactly the behaviour I’m talking about.
What I HAVEN’T tested, because I don’t really have the tools at hand to do it anywhere near reliably, is if it’s possible to press a button for the special a frame or 2 or 3 after you’ve touched ground and have that button press trigger sf4 to cancel the landing frames and do the attack right there. But if that’s true, it would be a really, really weird quirk of the engine.
if this is correct, and I suspect it is, then every jump in might as well be OS’d with throw… that way, should the jump-in miss, youll either tech the opponents throw atempt or block. It also makes me wonder about the OS of the Ryu on the ground. The standard 3,2,3,4 pause release FP that OSs the SRK against jump-ins might as well be followed with an immediate 2LP… that way you get either the SRK, the block, or you get the opponent in blockstun with 0 risk (the jab will hit in their 4 recovery frames)… I have to play around with this… your revelation totally changes the wake-up game in my eyes…
Yeah, I’ve pretty much determined the same thing. There is almost no reason not to attempt a throw tech on every single landing.
I think you can even hit the tech a few frames before landing, and it’ll work just fine. Although, that will probably cause an attack to start if you haven’t already done an attack. Making you susceptible to at least 3 frame attacks, invincible or not.
I was surprise about your comment about empty jump.
I m not sure i understood as for me it completly work.
sweep jump SHK clearly beat wake up throw.
sweep jump ex shoryu will alway beat wake up SRK.
i was not using negative edge, just sweep empty jump SRK.
are you sur of the way you tested this? I m sure you can do sweep jump Back dash, and if you can do that it means you have time to do what ever you want.
please try again, and tell me. if you have trouble I will make a video to make sure we speak about the same thing.